Long time viewers of this channel know I have been a Josi fan for years. I thought he was deserving of top three status in other seasons before this one when it came to Norris. Did the points production going up get him the needed votes?
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50 Comments
Josi is the ultimate man rocket
The league has a thing against Washington defensemen who go on an offensive tear. lol
Kinda joking because I remember 2008 and 2009 when they glossed over Mike Green after he went off with back-to-back 70-point seasons with the Caps. He was never the same after that.
I agree with you on some points. But at the end of the day games are won by scoring goals so a defensemen that scores a lot of points means he's getting goals and wins on the board for his teams. Now I think the rest of his game should be considered, but also that points should be a major factor for Norris voting.
We can have a pick-up game in an arena out back. You can have Carlson and I'll have Josi. With all else being equal between our teams, I really like my team's chances.
Hi
Hi cats
I feel like there isn't really an easy stat to look at to see how good a player is defensively. For offense, that stat is points. Generally, the best offensive players are the league leaders in points. There is no "easy" stat like points which can fully encompass the best defensive players.
This is why I think someone like Hedman and Josi are seen as the best defensemen in the league. Both are relatively great point scorers who also happen to be seen as solid defensive players. You can't really have it the other way, where someone is 15th in the league for points as a defenseman but just so happens to be the best defenseman at defense, even though I don't think it would be too hard to see players like Josi and Hedman as the 15th best defensemen at defense. Idk if I explained that well.
Anyway, this is why I think they should have a Bobby Orr award which is for either most points by a defenseman (like the Art Ross) or just whoever is voted to be the best offensive defenseman. We should also have the Rod Langway award for best defensive defenseman.
Josi is the definition of "complete" defenseman. The synthesis of offensive and defensive which honestly should be the most prized in Norris voting but for some reason, and I agree with Shannon, there is a fetish for offence.
I love Josi but should've been Carlsom this year imo! Carlson was on the brink last year and was incredible this year! He put up Center numbers and still played above average defense!
this video is fun!!! I know Shannon is a big Roman Josi fan. Because of this I am also a fan. My fav position is Best Defenceman in NHL. So when I watched Shannons videos, I learned this is the guy I am looking for. My fav position and the best guy in NHL in that position. WISH HE WAS A LEAF lol
I mean, one could argue that the best defense is a good offense when it comes to hockey. The other team can't having scoring opportunities if the puck is in their end. There's also the idea that those points generate win possibilities, whereas a defenseman shutting down a good shot opportunity late in a tied game doesn't necessarily factor into a win. It is a hard thing to really gauge and find a good medium on.
In puck possession, zone entries and shots Josi is among the best in the league. I think that made the difference to Hedman. Carlson shouldn't be in the discussion, he makes too many easy points with that Ovi line.
Josi won with double as many 1st votes as Carlson. It was clear as it can be. Josi is the best D-man in the league. He dominates games and gets no easy points.
Yo man . Stars need to start Oettinger in net game 4. They need a bigger body in net vs the lightning. Give Dobin a rest
U could throw Colton in there too
Agree, play in all three zones matters. Yes, scoring matters, but you need to be good in all 3 zones. Scoring matters but maybe too much in all awards.
He's a pretender the Norris belongs to Carlson! BTW check out https://thgyt.com
Carlson was for sure snubbed
Jossi Hedman Carlson and Pietrangelo. How'd you like to have that as your top 4 on defense. Might not matter who were your top 6 forwards.
I still think my guy John Carlson got robbed but whatever
It's my humble opinion that Carlson was shafted.
The Norris is becoming a career award. You apparently have to be a top defenseman for years, and be a top point getter in the season you finally win it.
Waay too much weight on rankings. I'd much rather have two top fifteen defensemen than one Norris trophy winner.
We need more rewards for d-men, they're oh so important but somewhat "forgotten"
If Josi and Hedman swapped points, Hedman would've won the norris.
Lol well call it the shannon hockey guy award for the best point getter on d !! 😆👍👍 id be on board tbh !!
Bring on the Langway trophy… it's way overdue!
The Norris has been the best scoring defenseman since Bobby Orr, not to say he didn't deserve it, but a 100+ point d-man?
Hedman should have won
We should have two trophies for Defensemen:
1) An "Art Ross" equivalent, named the Orr Award (of course)
2) One for defensive defenseman called the Langway Award
There should be 3 awards:
The best defenseman overall (complete) – Josi this season
The best offensive defenseman (Art Ross for D) – Carlson
The best defensive defenseman – could be Spurgeon, Pesce, Slavin this season
Love your channel and all the vids you make. Just one criticisme: Why are you just putting the scoring numbers while saying they should not count as much? What about Josi being #1 in zone entries, damm good at zone exits and all the other numbers that better describe a D-men. Or maybe this can be it's separate video "How to accurately rate defensemen".
And yes im bias cause I'm Swiss. So greetings from overseas and keep up the good work.
As a complete d man Josi is 2nd. Hedman is just a monster on both ends of the ice….
When I saw him live here in Switzerland last year at a national game i was really impressed of his presence on the ice. I saw quite some Nashville games on TV and I knew he was amazing but to see it live is another story. He was just "the mans" on the ice. He brings such a presence and calmness when hes on the puck but and yet, you still feel like he could create something dangerous at any time.
Sure: it was just a testgame and "just" against Lativa but still… I was excited to see Hischier, Fiala and Timo Meier as well but I was really impressed by Josi – he owned the game.
On a sidenote: I don't think creating two awards for defensmen as in one for the best offensive- and one for the best defensive-defensman would be a good idea. Sure, you would show the good defensive defensemen some appreciation. But the best offensive one would just be the one with the best points – which with defensemen relies heavily on the forwards they play with.
So the – in my opninion – "best" defenseman wouldn't be recognised once again. The best overall defenseman imo is one that can balance offense and defense the best – and yeah: this is kind of hard to measure/judge.
Make the scoring award named after Ovi once he breaks Gretzky goal record
Regular season awards that are voted on can't be taken completely seriously. Most voters don't only watch a handful of games per team, so they end up just voting for whoever has the most points.
The problem is that there’s only one award for defence. It leads to too many factors to be taken into account and it is a league that clearly favours points (i.e. Burns winning Norris in 2016-17, Pietrangelo still hasn’t won a Norris yet) instead of selecting an overall solid player.
My problem is if you’re not going to give it to Carlson this year, then Erik Karlsson and Subban had no business winning the award.
They should make an award similar to the Ted Lindsay where players vote who the best defenseman is either that or a separate award for highest scoring defenseman and then the regular Norris is for best overall
Josi is a great player and a fantastic person as well. Already liked him when he was still playing in Switzerland.
Where are his playoff stats? 75g 10g 26a 36p -20 plus/minus. 7 appearances in the playoffs and only once he was not have the minus. His two-way play is just a myth. He is no different from Carslon, just Carslon is better offensive player. The best overall def i the NHL is Hedman, no doubt.
Because he doesn't generate offense, this is basically why Colton Parayko won't ever be a Norris winner, despite the dude being one of the best damn defensive defensemen league-wide. Not to mention he could probably set the record for hardest shot if he ever made the All-Star team.
I don't know. Josi's game still has some obvious issues. He's got a lousy takeaway vs giveaway stat and for a defenseman that isn't a great stat to have a minus in. His best overall season was probably 17-18. With him also being very good this year. High plus minus in both of those years high blocks reasonable hits. A noteable trend with him is as he's gotten older he's giving the puck away more and more each season.
Should be the norris and the langway
Idk how josi didn’t get the hart, most points on his team by a d man no one else on the preds is as close to as talented as him, if he missed half the season we might have not even made the qualifers
A dmans main job is stop the other team from scoring not to score so why is it the ones that score the most?
I would love to see a separate trophy, the opposite of a Selke for players like Carlson, Doughty, Burns, etc. Josi and Hedman were fantastic Norris choices this year, glad to see Josi get one.
The Selke trophy shouldn’t exist. They don’t give that award to the best defensive forward in the nhl, they give it to the best “2-way” forward in the league. But the best 2 way forward is the best overall forward, defense is 50% of the game.
I think this year was fair. Josi, Carlson and Hedman are the best all around D men in the league. I would be surprised if Makar or Hughes will win in the next couple of years even if they are the top 3 in points for D. Both are still developing as as all around players. It would be cool if they added a best defensive d man trophy similar to The Selke but for D.
Hey Shannon, love your content. I am biased on this discussion as I am Swiss, so of course Josi was always my favourite for the Norris (even though he hails from my teams nemesis). This lad showed his potential in the 2013 World Cup where he was named MVP (and Switzerland made it to the final). Also there is a video out there which shows his sportsmanship: in his first NHL game he let lose a big slapper from the blue line… it was kind of a knuckle puck (or got deflected) and hit a defending player smack on the ear region… of course the player went down like a sack of potatoes and went out on a stretcher… Josi went to him and apologized for hitting him that badly, even though it was not his fault or intention… I think that speaks for him as well.
Looking at this a year later, where Tyson Barrie gets no votes for the Norris even tho he's the best scorer at defense implies there's not always this bias towards offensive defensemen. I would say this is more a testament to how much Josi and Hedman are the complete package.