– More people beyond marlies staff, dubas, and spezza will be culled
– Mirtle thinks some of Shanny’s meddling wasn’t making the team better
– its possible that GMs currently in other positions take out-clauses to come to the leafs
– many people in the org aren’t happy with how things ended
– front office will almost certainly be going back to a “more traditional” structure
– Keefe out almost certainly, Quenneville “unlikely”
whatlineisitanyway
Paywall. What deals did he play a heavy hand in?
JuiceWaz83
Button on TSN was essentially cheerleading George McPhee as next GM even though under contract with Vegas. That would be an interesting development if he, or another currently employed GM takes an out clause and join TML.
fireside68
Pretty vocal element wanted change. Well…you’re getting it. Hope it’s worth it.
lobsterpot54
Fuuuck, really want to know what deals shanny blocked
r3almaplesyrup
Elliotte Friedman on 32 thoughts also mentioned Doug Armstrong. I think he would be a really good fit, though can’t see how that would get done.
Also would love to know what Shanahan blocked. Are these just rumours?
cpher915
This is starting to feel like the Shanascam.
PlentyPeace3192
To be fair Mirtle is a Dubas fanboy. 1 series win. Grossly overpaid players
EddyMcDee
My opinion on who was right/wrong in this ness honestly depends on the specifics of the deals Shanny blocked/forced.
Gankdatnoob
Fallout? It’s common place when a GM changes that staff will change also. Jesus people are so melodramatic. We haven’t had success in forever. Change is tough but it had to happen sooner or later and with all these contracts coming up and no moves. It’s best this happens now before we lose all UFAs for nothing.
Kangaro00
I’ve been thinking about Dubas wanting autonomy and Shanahan involvement and reading some of the Dubas evaluation pieces posted here. Here are my thoughts. What does the Dubas firing remind me of? Kadri trade. Like it was decided on the spot after his suspension and someone got a task from his boss to get rid of Kadri by July 1st. It was a bit surprising how fast that trade came up and it wasn’t even the first one proposed. Dubas usually doesn’t rush into things. Shanahan makes up his mind quick and fires the shot.
Another thing – Marner’s negotiations. It was reported at the time that the negotiations were at standstill and Shanahan got involved. And I remember reading at the time that MLSE didn’t want another Nylander. What do we have now? Nylander as the best contract out of the four and Marner as the worst.
Of course, I don’t have any evidence, but it might be that we got rid of the fall guy and are left with the guy who is looking for a yes-man.
goleafsgo13
Shanny ultimately has to go.
No GM will want to come into this role with a meddling president and ownership group. I understand that this is the situation for many GM roles, but this is Toronto and everything will be magnified. Shanny shot himself in the foot and scuttled everything heās tried to build and ultimately failing at.
sokocanuck
If the Leafs can convince MacPhee or Armstrong to opt out and come here, I think this is going to work out for the better.
If ANY of the GMs get plucked from that trash-heap of a list floated earlier (Benning/Nonis/Chia/etc) then it’s a disaster
a1cd
I personally dislike Mirtles writing/coverage quite a bit but there is a lot of interesting information in this article. Iām honestly gutted we are losing Dubas and it still kinda feels like in the grieving process.
The line about how Dubas was blocked from making moves that could have made the team is just so subjective though, like sure but maybe the team would have gotten worse? Iām sure that different levels of hockey ops veto moves all the time across the league but itās written here as if itās some scandalous action.
I also think the panic that a significant portion of the leafs front office talent is going to jump ship from their (presumably) well paid jobs into the unknown after Dubas in the middle of this economy is pretty silly.
heirapparent24
I’m genuinely curious why the anti-Dubas fans are also pro-Shanahan. If you believe that Dubas wasn’t good at his job, what does that say about Shanahan who had final veto over his roster moves?
ldnk
Here’s an idea. Don’t handcuff your GM. Trust them or don’t. If you have an interim guy who is just there to end out the year that’s one thing, but having restrictions on your GM being able to make moves is asinine.
This puts the onus of the lack of success much more on Shanahan’s shoulders and why he is still part of this organization is beyond me. The whole thing should be culled at this point. Mickey mouse organization.
thedrunkentendy
Shanahan and the ownership could not have handled this worse. Dubas should’ve never been walked to his contract ending. Just sign him and fire him if need be, they can afford it.
Shanahan was all set to sign him, too, until Dubas said he wanted more control. All signs point to more control for Dubas, making the team better.
Also Shanny deserves a lot of flack for his decisions over the years. Bringing back Nonis for a season, signing Babcock to an 8 year deal before his gm was in place. Bringing in Lou and literally evetyrging Lou did.
I also bring up the 2018-2019 seasons as a wash for Dubas because he had to unfuck the team Lou handed him. Which is insane to think about considering that team has 3 stars on rookie deals, yet Lou still fucked it.
sugarmaple97
If the leafs somehow manage to win a cup in the next few years (who knows at this point) all of this will be forgiven
bforce1313
Thisā¦doesnāt look well on Shanahan to me. Or am I reading it wrong? Blocking moves that may have helped the team and forcing others. Wanting to revert to more ātraditionalā FO. I thought the leafs were ahead of the game in the front office side of things with some AGmās like Spez and Hayley.
LordMacmuffin
It’s feeling more and more like Shanahan is suffering from main character syndrome. He’s probably been watching what Masai has been doing and telling himself, “That could be me!” I really wish we get to find out which moves he has overridden Dubas on.
IHaveThreeBees
Article mentioned that ā¦ āThere is also a view in the organization that players have become too comfortable, which will likely feed into whatever organizational decisions are made this summer. ā
Couldnāt agree more. I for one am excited by this change and the upcoming offseason.
Armins_CopyOf_Swank
It’s possible Shanahan knows what GM’s are available for us, and that is why we made the move to not re-sign Dubas.
Unless a solid regular season showing is what constitutes success, we have been unsuccessful for Dubas’ tenure.
I am hopeful, but how can anyone judge this move before we see what the situation looks like in October.
thismadhatter
I think there is way too many assumptions being made about this scenario.
Like, Dubas is a great human being (it seems), but there was no doubt regarding players getting coddled with contracts and linemates and other issues.
I havent seen this team look genuinely disgusted with losing in a long ass time.
The only players that ever struck me as being really disappointed when they lost was Kadri and Spezza.
This team needs to win a title to keep it strong. I never imagined in my life I’d grow increasingly disinterested in this team, but I have – so have a ton of people.
The Montreal Series – that was when my heart just decided to take a step back.
We need change. We need trades. We need a new identity. I truly dont think this team is built to win in the playoffs.
BillBarilkosBones
Any details on what players Dubas wanted that shanny nixed, or that he was told to bring in ?
Purple_Pieman
Donāt really get all the Dubas love here. The guy took over a 100 point team, itās still a 100 point team and he won exactly 1 playoff round in 4 years.
At the same time he likely created big headaches coming up with problematic contracts and no move clauses. Itās pretty obvious he tried a power play and lost. Heās replaceable and the team will be fine.
JimBeefLakeMonster
The biggest thing I take away from all that has happened in the past few days is that Shanny needed to go before dubas or anyone else
MattyCMattyDo
What the last 24 hours has shown me is
A) The absolute peak of performance for a 100 year old franchise is regular season success, 7 years of first round exits and going out with a whimper in game 5 of round 2. B) Kyle Dubas is the only person on the planet who understands hockey management, and the only alternative to him is a JFJ/Nonis/Burkie/Lou Frankenstein monster, who will take us 50 steps back to the stone age with none of our players re-signing and turning their jerseys in on Shannyās desk like this is the movie Rudy and not professional sports.
Everyone needs to relax and realize no one person is bigger than the team.
budlightsucks67
I don’t know why everyone is upset. A single 1st round win after 5 years is unacceptable. Dubas didn’t build a playoff team. He got some good players but mortgaged some of the future and it didn’t work. You can’t keep your job after that.
cmrichardson87
These doom and gloom articles before any hiring or any player movement has been done is ridiculous. Typical Toronto bait and click media. I used to love The Athletic, I still pay for it, but man I canāt stand this right now.
29 Comments
Article mentions a few other tidbits:
– More people beyond marlies staff, dubas, and spezza will be culled
– Mirtle thinks some of Shanny’s meddling wasn’t making the team better
– its possible that GMs currently in other positions take out-clauses to come to the leafs
– many people in the org aren’t happy with how things ended
– front office will almost certainly be going back to a “more traditional” structure
– Keefe out almost certainly, Quenneville “unlikely”
Paywall. What deals did he play a heavy hand in?
Button on TSN was essentially cheerleading George McPhee as next GM even though under contract with Vegas. That would be an interesting development if he, or another currently employed GM takes an out clause and join TML.
Pretty vocal element wanted change. Well…you’re getting it. Hope it’s worth it.
Fuuuck, really want to know what deals shanny blocked
Elliotte Friedman on 32 thoughts also mentioned Doug Armstrong. I think he would be a really good fit, though can’t see how that would get done.
Also would love to know what Shanahan blocked. Are these just rumours?
This is starting to feel like the Shanascam.
To be fair Mirtle is a Dubas fanboy. 1 series win. Grossly overpaid players
My opinion on who was right/wrong in this ness honestly depends on the specifics of the deals Shanny blocked/forced.
Fallout? It’s common place when a GM changes that staff will change also. Jesus people are so melodramatic. We haven’t had success in forever. Change is tough but it had to happen sooner or later and with all these contracts coming up and no moves. It’s best this happens now before we lose all UFAs for nothing.
I’ve been thinking about Dubas wanting autonomy and Shanahan involvement and reading some of the Dubas evaluation pieces posted here. Here are my thoughts. What does the Dubas firing remind me of? Kadri trade. Like it was decided on the spot after his suspension and someone got a task from his boss to get rid of Kadri by July 1st. It was a bit surprising how fast that trade came up and it wasn’t even the first one proposed. Dubas usually doesn’t rush into things. Shanahan makes up his mind quick and fires the shot.
Another thing – Marner’s negotiations. It was reported at the time that the negotiations were at standstill and Shanahan got involved. And I remember reading at the time that MLSE didn’t want another Nylander. What do we have now? Nylander as the best contract out of the four and Marner as the worst.
Of course, I don’t have any evidence, but it might be that we got rid of the fall guy and are left with the guy who is looking for a yes-man.
Shanny ultimately has to go.
No GM will want to come into this role with a meddling president and ownership group. I understand that this is the situation for many GM roles, but this is Toronto and everything will be magnified. Shanny shot himself in the foot and scuttled everything heās tried to build and ultimately failing at.
If the Leafs can convince MacPhee or Armstrong to opt out and come here, I think this is going to work out for the better.
If ANY of the GMs get plucked from that trash-heap of a list floated earlier (Benning/Nonis/Chia/etc) then it’s a disaster
I personally dislike Mirtles writing/coverage quite a bit but there is a lot of interesting information in this article. Iām honestly gutted we are losing Dubas and it still kinda feels like in the grieving process.
The line about how Dubas was blocked from making moves that could have made the team is just so subjective though, like sure but maybe the team would have gotten worse? Iām sure that different levels of hockey ops veto moves all the time across the league but itās written here as if itās some scandalous action.
I also think the panic that a significant portion of the leafs front office talent is going to jump ship from their (presumably) well paid jobs into the unknown after Dubas in the middle of this economy is pretty silly.
I’m genuinely curious why the anti-Dubas fans are also pro-Shanahan. If you believe that Dubas wasn’t good at his job, what does that say about Shanahan who had final veto over his roster moves?
Here’s an idea. Don’t handcuff your GM. Trust them or don’t. If you have an interim guy who is just there to end out the year that’s one thing, but having restrictions on your GM being able to make moves is asinine.
This puts the onus of the lack of success much more on Shanahan’s shoulders and why he is still part of this organization is beyond me. The whole thing should be culled at this point. Mickey mouse organization.
Shanahan and the ownership could not have handled this worse. Dubas should’ve never been walked to his contract ending. Just sign him and fire him if need be, they can afford it.
Shanahan was all set to sign him, too, until Dubas said he wanted more control. All signs point to more control for Dubas, making the team better.
Also Shanny deserves a lot of flack for his decisions over the years. Bringing back Nonis for a season, signing Babcock to an 8 year deal before his gm was in place. Bringing in Lou and literally evetyrging Lou did.
I also bring up the 2018-2019 seasons as a wash for Dubas because he had to unfuck the team Lou handed him. Which is insane to think about considering that team has 3 stars on rookie deals, yet Lou still fucked it.
If the leafs somehow manage to win a cup in the next few years (who knows at this point) all of this will be forgiven
Thisā¦doesnāt look well on Shanahan to me. Or am I reading it wrong? Blocking moves that may have helped the team and forcing others. Wanting to revert to more ātraditionalā FO. I thought the leafs were ahead of the game in the front office side of things with some AGmās like Spez and Hayley.
It’s feeling more and more like Shanahan is suffering from main character syndrome. He’s probably been watching what Masai has been doing and telling himself, “That could be me!” I really wish we get to find out which moves he has overridden Dubas on.
Article mentioned that ā¦ āThere is also a view in the organization that players have become too comfortable, which will likely feed into whatever organizational decisions are made this summer. ā
Couldnāt agree more. I for one am excited by this change and the upcoming offseason.
It’s possible Shanahan knows what GM’s are available for us, and that is why we made the move to not re-sign Dubas.
Unless a solid regular season showing is what constitutes success, we have been unsuccessful for Dubas’ tenure.
I am hopeful, but how can anyone judge this move before we see what the situation looks like in October.
I think there is way too many assumptions being made about this scenario.
Like, Dubas is a great human being (it seems), but there was no doubt regarding players getting coddled with contracts and linemates and other issues.
I havent seen this team look genuinely disgusted with losing in a long ass time.
The only players that ever struck me as being really disappointed when they lost was Kadri and Spezza.
This team needs to win a title to keep it strong. I never imagined in my life I’d grow increasingly disinterested in this team, but I have – so have a ton of people.
The Montreal Series – that was when my heart just decided to take a step back.
We need change. We need trades. We need a new identity. I truly dont think this team is built to win in the playoffs.
Any details on what players Dubas wanted that shanny nixed, or that he was told to bring in ?
Donāt really get all the Dubas love here. The guy took over a 100 point team, itās still a 100 point team and he won exactly 1 playoff round in 4 years.
At the same time he likely created big headaches coming up with problematic contracts and no move clauses. Itās pretty obvious he tried a power play and lost. Heās replaceable and the team will be fine.
The biggest thing I take away from all that has happened in the past few days is that Shanny needed to go before dubas or anyone else
What the last 24 hours has shown me is
A) The absolute peak of performance for a 100 year old franchise is regular season success, 7 years of first round exits and going out with a whimper in game 5 of round 2.
B) Kyle Dubas is the only person on the planet who understands hockey management, and the only alternative to him is a JFJ/Nonis/Burkie/Lou Frankenstein monster, who will take us 50 steps back to the stone age with none of our players re-signing and turning their jerseys in on Shannyās desk like this is the movie Rudy and not professional sports.
Everyone needs to relax and realize no one person is bigger than the team.
I don’t know why everyone is upset. A single 1st round win after 5 years is unacceptable. Dubas didn’t build a playoff team. He got some good players but mortgaged some of the future and it didn’t work. You can’t keep your job after that.
These doom and gloom articles before any hiring or any player movement has been done is ridiculous. Typical Toronto bait and click media. I used to love The Athletic, I still pay for it, but man I canāt stand this right now.