This really feels like an ego move from Shanny and i think itll completely blow up in his face
ltDoBeLikeThat_
Fire him and offer his job to Dubas ASAP
moabthecrab
This team is a fucking shit show. Back to the old dinosaur club seems like.
branchoflight
Can Lupul pass a medical exam yet?
t_toda_DOTA
Yeah, maybe we’ll make out of second round next time. If not, Shanny gone too.
XPhazeX
Is that how you guys feel? Really?
Only 9 other GM’s have had the job longer then Dubas(10 if you still count Pollie)
Teams change GM’s. Just because the Leafs are doing it doesnt mean the sky is falling
DaltonFitz
This is the first move that has infuriated me in years. God forbid Kyle acknowledges he wants to consider his family and wants to be paid(which another team rightly will do).
HotModerate11
One not-so-great thing about the new era was the tendency to pay big money to people who hadn’t won anything.
Maybe this is the end of that.
bootsandbigs
We’ll see how it plays out but if Shanny thought Dubas was his GM going forward a week ago, and then as of today we don’t have a GM, I’ve lost a lot of faith in Shanahan.
Sabeoth42
What a stupid fucking article. We currently have no GM, a dead man walking coach and no clue what will happen with our core. You can’t say good or bad what direction the team is headed yet. The only thing we can say is it’s heading in a new direction.
Gankdatnoob
First time in years? I swear we have the memory of goldfish. We failed for so many years!! and Our only success is finally getting out of the first round only to lose 3 straight! What?
mtrunz
Don’t need to read the article. Title is exactly how I feel.
This is the beginning of the end. I hope it’s not but it damn sure feels that way.
oryes
It does, and there are so many people in the other thread talking about contract negotiations, leverage, etc. I get all that, I’ve had jobs and negotiated contracts.
I don’t care about that though, I’m a Leafs fan, and the bottom line is the Leafs thought he was the man for the job (as did most of us), and then lost him anyways. Then they leaked out a bunch of personal details from the negotiation, that no fans should ever have even had to think about.
This entire day has been a complete embarrassment for this organization, and it’s really tough to even see where they go from here. What a joke.
Volderon90
If you can’t decide whether you want to be the GM of the leafs then it’s time to go. Family issues or whatever (which is probably false considering he came back with another offer of more money, you’re telling me that extra 2 million will help your family issues?) if you can’t bring 100 percent to it then maybe he shouldn’t be GM.
Shanny probably just realized he didn’t have it in him anymore to do what’s necessary and he wasn’t a killer.
So as Logan Roy says, if you can’t do it, fuck off!
SDAisaleaf
What was Shanahan supposed to do? Dubas insisted on speaking to the media to publicly claim that he wasn’t really sure about being the GM here, and then asked for a huge raise and full autonomy. Anybody would laugh him off and move on to someone else. Being the GM of Toronto is the most coveted job in hockey management, if Dubas didn’t want to do it then somebody else will
No_Capital_5386
I want Shanny gone
AhTreyYou
Jesus Christ. Kyle Dubas is what makes the Toronto Maple Leafs? Without him we can’t have success? Kyle has been here 9 years and we ultimately have 1 playoff round victory that we were outplayed in. Shanahan should be let go too.
Ryanyu10
Great article. I found this part to be especially incisive:
>I’m looking for a way that story reflects well on the team. I’m not finding it. Instead, this feels like the way the old Leafs would do things. Rashly. Almost randomly. Making big, franchise-altering decisions based on what somebody’s gut is telling them. Years of progress getting wiped out in a few days, or even hours. > >None of this is even a defense of Dubas. I’ve made the case for big changes more than once over the last few weeks, and turfing the GM surely qualifies. Shanahan could have shown up on Friday afternoon and told us: Sorry, it hasn’t been good enough. Or maybe: He did a good job, but I have somebody better who’s ready to go. Or even: As a guy with three rings, I decided that Kyle just isn’t the right guy to take us to the Stanley Cup, and that’s the only goal that matters for this franchise. > >**Instead, we heard about a mind made up, and then unmade. In four days.**
At the end of the day, there’s a way to move forward without Dubas. He isn’t the only one who can do the job, even if he might be a great candidate for it. But the apparent impulsiveness of this decision just doesn’t inspire confidence that the Leafs have a grasp of that way forward. It just feels like the team is moving on a whim, and that’s not what a winning organization does.
Slacker_75
Shanahan should’ve gone way before Dubas. The dark days are back folks. Dubas was a top mind in this league. Wait til we hire a 75 year old for GM
MrPangus
If they make it out of the second round next year, I dont want to hear that Dubas was the problem all along type of bullshit. That tampa team was built on the back of Yzerman’s work and he never got the championships.
just_another_guy9
Listen, I would have preferred to keep Kyle Dubas as GM. I think he’s grown a lot and this trade deadline he did everything possible to put the team in the best position possible.
That being said, he tried to make a power play for more money. He got called on it and they moved on. Kyle has historically made multiple power plays (He forced both Lou and Babcock out) and I’m guessing management has begun to feel his ego has outstripped his achievements.
The only thing I’m concerned about is that Dubas being let go could cause a cascading effect in the organization. I don’t care if Dubas goes, I do care if his culture of team building dies with him. They’re so close to a long-term winning formula and I hope the organization that he helped build outlives him in spirit. If a bunch of the analytics guys dip out or a bunch of the AGMs leave I’d be concerned.
daveinthe6
This too shall pass guys. It could be good, it could be bad. None of us know for sure…
At least its entertaining… are you not entertained?!
Para5yte
This is a good day to learn who an absolute MORON in this fan base. If you think this was the right move then go take a look at the current Vancouver Canucks because that is what we’re about to look like. Matthews might as well be as good as gone and I doubt the other stars stay unless you heavily overpay.
I usually watch every game. Probably going to have to take a step back this year, the old boys leafs club is back because the people too stupid for math screamed the loudest
stripseek_teedawt
There’s so many awful takes here I would swear Rogers is paying bots. Like completely out of touch with reality.
formed2forge
Yep. Exactly.
Matrix17
This team literally destroyed all the progress and goodwill it built over the past like 5 years
There’s no coming back from that. I’ll see y’all on the other side
TheWilrus
How do fans force this POS ownership group out? The only person in the organization I didn’t want to lose they push out. Holy fuck. This feels like it’s 2005? Or 2009 or 2014. I’m gutted more than I expected.
MTL is going to have a good team in a couple years.
TuloCantHitski
It is zero surprise to me that The Athletic – who would rather we be the top team by corsi than win a cup – are shedding tears over Dubas
jayde2767
Welcome to Brendan Shanahan’s fragile ego.
Yumhotdogstock
You know what, the more I sit here today and think about what is happening, the more I realize we have lost a top NHL GM, the fact the corporate weasels that run MLSE want to skimp on budget now, the fact that this (apparently is a power struggle, the fact that top Leaf players are not on board, and other things.
I am just done.
I loved the fact they beat Tampa, It was cathartic. I have loved this team for decades.
Now, burn it all down, I am done. The Leafs will never win. The principles involved have no incentive to do so, and I have been a fool for buying into it for all these years.
ikon31
Putting aside any hate or love for Dubas and Shanahan, I feel like my interpretation of this story is so different from many here.
-Dubas is disappointed. And exhausted and burned out. And knows his career had taken a toll on his personal life.
-shanahan is disappointed. But still believes in dubas and intends to offer him a new contract.
-dubas’ presser Monday, he vocalizes his apprehension toward returning. But it’s not about going elsewhere.
-shanahan is surprised by this. Not in a bad way. Just not something he expected.
-dubas now decides, that given how hard this job is on his and his family, he wants larger concessions in his new contract. Be it money or autonomy or other.
– shanahan decides he cannot offer this new ask. No agreement is made. They part ways.
Why is this thread going nuts assigning blame to one side or the other? We don’t even know what dubas’ new request were. Should we blame him for asking for more compensation (or whatever) given how he is feeling? Should we blame shanahan for not just agreeing when we don’t even know the scope of the demands?
Two sides tried to find a zone of possible agreement. They could not. No deal was made. This is not uncommon. And it isn’t necessarily about blame.
richarm87
I don’t know it seems like the message might be that it’s an honor to play/ work for the leafs. And if you aren’t sure, and you try to play games for extra money than thanks but no thanks. The only one they had a strong message for was Nylander than they forgot that message for the next 2.
BigPZ
Quick put Fletcher in charge in the interim…
Wait isn’t Burke available?
What’s JFJ doing right now?
Is Randy Carlyle around?
bucajack
Brendan handled this so wrong. Aired out his dirty laundry with Dubas for everyone to see.
deadlygr8ful
I think its being over hyped. As the Toronto media and fans tens to do. Let it play out.
Separate-Fly1686
Lol this is all one sided. Make your GM a sitting duck for a year and then go mia all year so rumors start. Four days undid everything for Shanahan? I don’t know seems rash. I’d love to hear the other side but doesn’t look like Kyle wants to talk.
benhadhundredsshapow
No it doesn’t lol. Give the man a chance. Thiis team was 6 years under Dubas with one, ONE playoff round win.
LordMacmuffin
Hopefully we get to hear Dubas’ side of the story. It’s sure to be intriguing. He said he was fine with being a lame duck, but maybe that resulted in resentment towards ownership, Shanahan?
The rumors of Shanahan having final say over all his moves might have been the biggest factor in why Dubas isn’t back. If true, it probably deteriorated their relationship. Was there a power struggle? Maybe Dubas didn’t want to come back under those conditions. Maybe Shanahan was trying to find any excuse to get rid of him and maintain control.
balsimransingh
I liked Dubas and thought the leafs should have brought him back. I find the rhetoric that Shanahan has no idea what he’s doing is an interesting one to me.
If you think Dubas had no success then Shanahan is also to blame for that, but if you think Dubas was great at his job then doesn’t Shanahan deserve credit for that?
The leafs (read:Shanahan &co) have known that Dubas’ contract was done after this season for a long time. Also knew this was a possibility going into this season and after the end of it. Yes, Shanahan said they would rather have brought him back, but it’s not like they’re operating from a position they didn’t expect to be in. We’ll see what happens with the GM position but I don’t think they’re unprepared for this scenario. If they didn’t win a round Dubas would have been fired what, 2 weeks ago? Still would’ve been a tight timeline right?
39 Comments
This really feels like an ego move from Shanny and i think itll completely blow up in his face
Fire him and offer his job to Dubas ASAP
This team is a fucking shit show. Back to the old dinosaur club seems like.
Can Lupul pass a medical exam yet?
Yeah, maybe we’ll make out of second round next time. If not, Shanny gone too.
Is that how you guys feel? Really?
Only 9 other GM’s have had the job longer then Dubas(10 if you still count Pollie)
Teams change GM’s. Just because the Leafs are doing it doesnt mean the sky is falling
This is the first move that has infuriated me in years. God forbid Kyle acknowledges he wants to consider his family and wants to be paid(which another team rightly will do).
One not-so-great thing about the new era was the tendency to pay big money to people who hadn’t won anything.
Maybe this is the end of that.
We’ll see how it plays out but if Shanny thought Dubas was his GM going forward a week ago, and then as of today we don’t have a GM, I’ve lost a lot of faith in Shanahan.
What a stupid fucking article. We currently have no GM, a dead man walking coach and no clue what will happen with our core. You can’t say good or bad what direction the team is headed yet. The only thing we can say is it’s heading in a new direction.
First time in years? I swear we have the memory of goldfish. We failed for so many years!! and Our only success is finally getting out of the first round only to lose 3 straight! What?
Don’t need to read the article. Title is exactly how I feel.
This is the beginning of the end. I hope it’s not but it damn sure feels that way.
It does, and there are so many people in the other thread talking about contract negotiations, leverage, etc. I get all that, I’ve had jobs and negotiated contracts.
I don’t care about that though, I’m a Leafs fan, and the bottom line is the Leafs thought he was the man for the job (as did most of us), and then lost him anyways. Then they leaked out a bunch of personal details from the negotiation, that no fans should ever have even had to think about.
This entire day has been a complete embarrassment for this organization, and it’s really tough to even see where they go from here. What a joke.
If you can’t decide whether you want to be the GM of the leafs then it’s time to go. Family issues or whatever (which is probably false considering he came back with another offer of more money, you’re telling me that extra 2 million will help your family issues?) if you can’t bring 100 percent to it then maybe he shouldn’t be GM.
Shanny probably just realized he didn’t have it in him anymore to do what’s necessary and he wasn’t a killer.
So as Logan Roy says, if you can’t do it, fuck off!
What was Shanahan supposed to do? Dubas insisted on speaking to the media to publicly claim that he wasn’t really sure about being the GM here, and then asked for a huge raise and full autonomy. Anybody would laugh him off and move on to someone else. Being the GM of Toronto is the most coveted job in hockey management, if Dubas didn’t want to do it then somebody else will
I want Shanny gone
Jesus Christ. Kyle Dubas is what makes the Toronto Maple Leafs? Without him we can’t have success? Kyle has been here 9 years and we ultimately have 1 playoff round victory that we were outplayed in. Shanahan should be let go too.
Great article. I found this part to be especially incisive:
>I’m looking for a way that story reflects well on the team. I’m not finding it. Instead, this feels like the way the old Leafs would do things. Rashly. Almost randomly. Making big, franchise-altering decisions based on what somebody’s gut is telling them. Years of progress getting wiped out in a few days, or even hours.
>
>None of this is even a defense of Dubas. I’ve made the case for big changes more than once over the last few weeks, and turfing the GM surely qualifies. Shanahan could have shown up on Friday afternoon and told us: Sorry, it hasn’t been good enough. Or maybe: He did a good job, but I have somebody better who’s ready to go. Or even: As a guy with three rings, I decided that Kyle just isn’t the right guy to take us to the Stanley Cup, and that’s the only goal that matters for this franchise.
>
>**Instead, we heard about a mind made up, and then unmade. In four days.**
At the end of the day, there’s a way to move forward without Dubas. He isn’t the only one who can do the job, even if he might be a great candidate for it. But the apparent impulsiveness of this decision just doesn’t inspire confidence that the Leafs have a grasp of that way forward. It just feels like the team is moving on a whim, and that’s not what a winning organization does.
Shanahan should’ve gone way before Dubas. The dark days are back folks. Dubas was a top mind in this league. Wait til we hire a 75 year old for GM
If they make it out of the second round next year, I dont want to hear that Dubas was the problem all along type of bullshit. That tampa team was built on the back of Yzerman’s work and he never got the championships.
Listen, I would have preferred to keep Kyle Dubas as GM. I think he’s grown a lot and this trade deadline he did everything possible to put the team in the best position possible.
That being said, he tried to make a power play for more money. He got called on it and they moved on. Kyle has historically made multiple power plays (He forced both Lou and Babcock out) and I’m guessing management has begun to feel his ego has outstripped his achievements.
The only thing I’m concerned about is that Dubas being let go could cause a cascading effect in the organization. I don’t care if Dubas goes, I do care if his culture of team building dies with him. They’re so close to a long-term winning formula and I hope the organization that he helped build outlives him in spirit. If a bunch of the analytics guys dip out or a bunch of the AGMs leave I’d be concerned.
This too shall pass guys. It could be good, it could be bad. None of us know for sure…
At least its entertaining… are you not entertained?!
This is a good day to learn who an absolute MORON in this fan base. If you think this was the right move then go take a look at the current Vancouver Canucks because that is what we’re about to look like. Matthews might as well be as good as gone and I doubt the other stars stay unless you heavily overpay.
I usually watch every game. Probably going to have to take a step back this year, the old boys leafs club is back because the people too stupid for math screamed the loudest
There’s so many awful takes here I would swear Rogers is paying bots. Like completely out of touch with reality.
Yep. Exactly.
This team literally destroyed all the progress and goodwill it built over the past like 5 years
There’s no coming back from that. I’ll see y’all on the other side
How do fans force this POS ownership group out? The only person in the organization I didn’t want to lose they push out. Holy fuck. This feels like it’s 2005? Or 2009 or 2014. I’m gutted more than I expected.
MTL is going to have a good team in a couple years.
It is zero surprise to me that The Athletic – who would rather we be the top team by corsi than win a cup – are shedding tears over Dubas
Welcome to Brendan Shanahan’s fragile ego.
You know what, the more I sit here today and think about what is happening, the more I realize we have lost a top NHL GM, the fact the corporate weasels that run MLSE want to skimp on budget now, the fact that this (apparently is a power struggle, the fact that top Leaf players are not on board, and other things.
I am just done.
I loved the fact they beat Tampa, It was cathartic. I have loved this team for decades.
Now, burn it all down, I am done. The Leafs will never win. The principles involved have no incentive to do so, and I have been a fool for buying into it for all these years.
Putting aside any hate or love for Dubas and Shanahan, I feel like my interpretation of this story is so different from many here.
-Dubas is disappointed. And exhausted and burned out. And knows his career had taken a toll on his personal life.
-shanahan is disappointed. But still believes in dubas and intends to offer him a new contract.
-dubas’ presser Monday, he vocalizes his apprehension toward returning. But it’s not about going elsewhere.
-shanahan is surprised by this. Not in a bad way. Just not something he expected.
-dubas now decides, that given how hard this job is on his and his family, he wants larger concessions in his new contract. Be it money or autonomy or other.
– shanahan decides he cannot offer this new ask. No agreement is made. They part ways.
Why is this thread going nuts assigning blame to one side or the other? We don’t even know what dubas’ new request were. Should we blame him for asking for more compensation (or whatever) given how he is feeling? Should we blame shanahan for not just agreeing when we don’t even know the scope of the demands?
Two sides tried to find a zone of possible agreement. They could not. No deal was made. This is not uncommon. And it isn’t necessarily about blame.
I don’t know it seems like the message might be that it’s an honor to play/ work for the leafs. And if you aren’t sure, and you try to play games for extra money than thanks but no thanks. The only one they had a strong message for was Nylander than they forgot that message for the next 2.
Quick put Fletcher in charge in the interim…
Wait isn’t Burke available?
What’s JFJ doing right now?
Is Randy Carlyle around?
Brendan handled this so wrong. Aired out his dirty laundry with Dubas for everyone to see.
I think its being over hyped. As the Toronto media and fans tens to do. Let it play out.
Lol this is all one sided. Make your GM a sitting duck for a year and then go mia all year so rumors start. Four days undid everything for Shanahan? I don’t know seems rash. I’d love to hear the other side but doesn’t look like Kyle wants to talk.
No it doesn’t lol. Give the man a chance. Thiis team was 6 years under Dubas with one, ONE playoff round win.
Hopefully we get to hear Dubas’ side of the story. It’s sure to be intriguing. He said he was fine with being a lame duck, but maybe that resulted in resentment towards ownership, Shanahan?
The rumors of Shanahan having final say over all his moves might have been the biggest factor in why Dubas isn’t back. If true, it probably deteriorated their relationship. Was there a power struggle? Maybe Dubas didn’t want to come back under those conditions. Maybe Shanahan was trying to find any excuse to get rid of him and maintain control.
I liked Dubas and thought the leafs should have brought him back. I find the rhetoric that Shanahan has no idea what he’s doing is an interesting one to me.
If you think Dubas had no success then Shanahan is also to blame for that, but if you think Dubas was great at his job then doesn’t Shanahan deserve credit for that?
The leafs (read:Shanahan &co) have known that Dubas’ contract was done after this season for a long time. Also knew this was a possibility going into this season and after the end of it. Yes, Shanahan said they would rather have brought him back, but it’s not like they’re operating from a position they didn’t expect to be in. We’ll see what happens with the GM position but I don’t think they’re unprepared for this scenario. If they didn’t win a round Dubas would have been fired what, 2 weeks ago? Still would’ve been a tight timeline right?