Many of you asked me what I thought of the Netflix movie ‘The Game Changers’ and about plant based diets for sport performance generally. The references discussed in this video can be found on the blog post that accompanies this episode:
https://www.davemacleod.com/blog/gamechangers
43 Comments
I am aware of the flaws in this documentary. Unfortunately, your arguments are, for the most part, not really better. You can't seriously mean that humans industrialy killing bilions of animals each year is supposed to the process of "hunting in an eco system". This is so beyond being natural, so arguing with nature here is just plain wrong. And since like 70 percent of the worlds mono culture fields are used to grow food for animals the argument just backfired because that would be another reason to go vegan. Just look at how much energy is wasted here instead of eating it right away.
Is it possible that when you think of animal farming you think of the images that are present to you by the media ads? 99 percent of the animal products are not made like this. In Germany you can take days of driving around and you won't hardly see any cow or any sheep really standing on a field.
You probably know a lot of things about nutrition, but your arguments about environment are ridiculous.
https://treesforlife.org.uk/into-the-forest/habitats-and-ecology/human-impacts/
"The arrival of farming
Early farmers arrived on the scene about 5,900 years ago. (Humans had been around much earlier, but we don’t know what impact they had.)
These Neolithic farmers grazed cattle, goats and primitive sheep.
They burned areas of heath and pinewoods to encourage fresh growth of heather for their stock. Burning plus grazing was bad news for trees. Woodland couldn’t recolonise denuded areas and went into further retreat"
"Overgrazing by large herbivores such as red deer and sheep has been the primary cause of the lack of tree regeneration in the Caledonian Forest for the past 150-200 years."
The insufferable vegans in the comments 😆
The Antibiotic Resistance Crisis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4378521/
"Extensive Agricultural Use
In both the developed and developing world, antibiotics are widely used as growth supplements in livestock.5,10,14 An estimated 80% of antibiotics sold in the U.S. are used in animals, primarily to promote growth and to prevent infection.7,12,14 Treating livestock with antimicrobials is said to improve the overall health of the animals, producing larger yields and a higher-quality product.15
The antibiotics used in livestock are ingested by humans when they consume food.1 The transfer of resistant bacteria to humans by farm animals was first noted more than 35 years ago, when high rates of antibiotic resistance were found in the intestinal flora of both farm animals and farmers.14 More recently, molecular detection methods have demonstrated that resistant bacteria in farm animals reach consumers through meat products.14 This occurs through the following sequence of events: 1) antibiotic use in food-producing animals kills or suppresses susceptible bacteria, allowing antibiotic-resistant bacteria to thrive; 2) resistant bacteria are transmitted to humans through the food supply; 3) these bacteria can cause infections in humans that may lead to adverse health consequences.5
The agricultural use of antibiotics also affects the environmental microbiome.5,14 Up to 90% of the antibiotics given to livestock are excreted in urine and stool, then widely dispersed through fertilizer, groundwater, and surface runoff.5,14 In addition, tetracyclines and streptomycin are sprayed on fruit trees to act as pesticides in the western and southern U.S.1 While this application accounts for a much smaller proportion of overall antibiotic use, the resultant geographical spread can be considerable.1 This practice also contributes to the exposure of microorganisms in the environment to growth-inhibiting agents, altering the environmental ecology by increasing the proportion of resistant versus susceptible microorganisms.1
Antibacterial products sold for hygienic or cleaning purposes may also contribute to this problem, since they may limit the development of immunities to environmental antigens in both children and adults.1,15 Consequently, immune-system versatility may be compromised, possibly increasing morbidity and mortality due to infections that wouldn’t normally be virulent.15"
If plant eaters eat more protein on average than meat eaters, wouldn't the fact that it is less bioavailable not be relevant because the quantity of the intake makes up for the lesser bioavailability?
The Lancet Countdown on Health and Climate Change: 2020 report
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp6avcskCcg
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32290-X/fulltext (for registered users for free)
The 2020 report of The Lancet Countdown on health and climate change: responding to converging crises
"The response in the food and agricultural sector has been similarly concerning. Emissions from livestock grew by 16% from 2000 to 2017, with 93% of emissions coming from ruminant animals (indicator 3.5.1). Likewise, increasingly unhealthy diets are becoming more common worldwide, with excess red meat consumption contributing to some 990 000 deaths in 2017 (indicator 3.5.2)."
"Ultimately, effective mitigation will maximise human health while reducing food and agricultural emissions; however, no one diet is
applicable everywhere and there are important nuances and variations to be considered across regions and countries.
Excessive consumption of red meat brings considerable health consequences, and plant-based sources that are less emissions-intensive are important alternatives, particularly in Europe and the Americas where per-capita emissions are high.
In other parts of the world, sustainable farming and agricultural practices are being implemented to meet the nutritional requirements of
rapidly growing populations while also keeping emissions low."
Another interesting fact:
You link to the following paper about GWP* :
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-019-0086-4
("Improved calculation of warming-equivalent emissions for short-lived climate pollutants")
Your quote: "Methane is not 30X more potent. This incorrect calculation has been superseded by improved modelling of the impact of short lived climate gases. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-019-0086-4 "
Guess who funded it? The Wellcome Trust.
See: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-019-0086-4#Ack1
Your quote:
"Also, one should note that the report is brought to you by the Wellcome Trust, i.e Nestle, Roche, Pepsico, Johnson & Johnson, Novartis, Amazon, Shell, Anheuser-Busch, BP and bunch of others https://wellcome.org/about-us/investments/direct-public-equity-holdings-2019
No wonder they want to avoid talking about the actual causes of climate change and poor human health!"
I am confused! What should we do now?
The following response to their science is done by Professor Peter Smith (Convening Lead Author of Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Special Report on Climate Change and Land (2016-2019)) and Andrew Balmford.
https://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/186/2/71
("Climate change: ‘no get out of jail free card’")
I won't bore you with "more quotes", you can read it. It's free and not very long.
https://youtu.be/slZJ2jSjxSE – The Problem with Grass-Fed Beef
I'm vegan 4 years now. Physically, I don't feel much different, but lab work shows otherwise. Total cholesterol went from (pre vegan) 227 to 159. LDL from 163 to 101, and Triglycerides from 125 to 88. Good cholesterol didn't budge (dammit).
It's right for me, though I get that it isn't right for everyone. I'm pretty confident now that I'm not going to get heart disease, high BP, diabetes, etc. — all the preventable hell that the western diet wreaks.
Maybe listen to your clan Dave! 😉
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9004873/Scottish-clan-chief-plans-rewild-Isle-Skye-estate-370-000-native-trees.html
Hugh MacLeod & Dunvegan Castle 😀 😀 😀
Good sort out!
Critical thinking is an important skill. Experimenting is great, but its a lot better with a complete set of facts. Spotting the spin that sounds good in theory yet fails the test of time took me more than a few tries… well done!
Is no one going to call him out on that obscenely milky tea?
Absolutely brilliant and far more comprehensive than that rubbish they're peddling on Netflix. More than being healthy or saving the environment, self-righteous virtue signallers just want to be better than other people and that's a large part of the reason they adopt these trendy plant diets. I'm so glad Mr. MacLeod took a crack at showcasing some of the primary diets to shed more light on the pea propaganda. Danke schön!
This has been an eye openner and one of the best explanation that I have heard in a while, for nutrition and the whole dieting and baance diet and Dave really put a point on that theme and I am very happy bout that. Thanks or everything. Excelent video and all the good things in life for you. From Portugal.
Dave, you are a boon to climbers everywhere. Thank you for the well-researched information you present in an accessible manner, and for encouraging us all to think for ourselves.
Thanks for doing this review. I've been pretty disappointed with health-focused vegan/plant-based documentaries so far. Nutrition is by its nature an imprecise science, and documentaries in general are not the best way to communicate health science. It's complicated, but a documentary has to be short and punchy with a powerful message. I'm not defending it, but I understand why they did it the way they did and used a sample size of 3 for some of their tests during the documentary.
I've been vegan for 6 years, and my perspective is that it has nothing to do with health for me. I know this wasn't the point of your video, but I think it's worth me mentioning. If including some non-human animal products meant I'd be a bit more healthy, or a bit better at climbing, I still wouldn't include them in my diet for the same reason I wouldn't include human animal products in my diet if it made me a bit healthier/stronger. For me, it's just about the ethics.
I will say that I think you're partially wrong about B12. B12 in animal products comes in no small part from supplements injected into animals prior to slaughter to supplement B12 in humans, since it's hard to get enough from natural sources. Eating more meat will help with B12, sure, but so will getting B12 from any other supplement.
Plant based diet is superior for health and of course ethics. We don't need to mutilate and violate animals. End of.
You are genius!
I was so lucky to get rid of my Multiple Fibroids by Dr Alaho Olu on YouTube channel. My Fallopian Tube was blocked and I wasn’t able to give birth but now after using Dr Alaho Olu on YouTube herbs I was cured totally so I will advise you all to contact him…
it kills me to see that a documentary that shows an absolutely legit topic such as raising awearness about health and meat consumption goes to also rely on putting up missleading information… it didn't need to hide anything because the simple truth as a whole is illustrative enough and, by doing so, it just looses credit :/
the bottom line is that life demands balance and moderation — think about how you feel versus sticking to a prescribed plan — don't buy into all or nothing thinking
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/06/cut-methane-emissions-rapidly-fight-climate-disasters-un-report-greenhouse-gas-global-heating
("Cutting methane emissions is quickest way to slow global heating – UN report
Fossil fuels, cattle and rotting waste produce greenhouse gas responsible for 30% of global heating")
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/20/e2013637118
('Air quality–related health damages of food')
https://biologicaldiversity.org/w/news/press-releases/lawsuit-launched-to-protect-endangered-mouse-riparian-areas-in-new-mexicos-sacramento-mountains-2021-06-04/
("These mice represent the health of the upper elevation meadows and streams. It’s immoral and illegal for the Forest Service to continue allowing cattle to decimate the area and cause a local extinction")
https://www.fairr.org/article/over-70-of-animal-agriculture-firms-at-high-risk-of-fostering-future-zoonotic-pandemics/
("Over 70% of Animal Agriculture Firms at “High Risk” of Fostering Future Zoonotic Pandemics")
https://news.mongabay.com/2021/06/in-scotland-the-rewilding-movement-looks-to-the-past-to-plan-its-future
("In Scotland, the rewilding movement looks to the past to plan its future)
https://www.rewildingamountain.com/
https://www.desmog.com/2021/07/18/investigation-meat-industry-greenwash-climatewash/
"Investigation: How the Meat Industry is Climate-Washing its Polluting Business Model
Growing global meat consumption threatens to derail the Paris Agreement, but that hasn’t stopped the meat industry insisting it is part of the solution to climate change."https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/06/cut-methane-emissions-rapidly-fight-climate-disasters-un-report-greenhouse-gas-global-heating
That's a well-made looking cup of tea.
Dave, this is incredibly well thought-out and presented. You have an impressive intellect. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for providing references.
great dave! now i can just tell to watch this and save a lot of arguing! You almost start thinking your crazy seeing all this anti meat doc. on the tv
While I am happy to believe this is a crap documentary, I sense a bit of bias here. Interested in Dave doing a review of people explaining why a ketogenic diet has failed them, to compliment the equivalent vegan version he requested from these filmmakers.
16:20 my favorite part 😀 😀
Thanks for providing an unbiased opinion. Not too many people know how to think critically. It’s obvious from tue comments that there are plenty if people who can’t get past their mixture of beliefs to see the obvious which you are pointing out.
As an older climber returning after injuries I really appreciate your information.
Hi Dave, thank you for your great review! I think, many vegans nowadays have ecological and ethical reasons for their diet choice. Do you have any dietary tips for vegan climbers?
100 years ago, Polar explorer Roald Amundson learned from the Inuit that seal blubber could succesfully prevent scurvy. He insisted his crew consume it becuase it was superior to the preferred method of the time, storing lime juice that eventually went bad.
Hi, Dave! You know so much about nutrition! Do you have a video about how to prepare food? I am not sure, but some people say that the way we prepare food has an impact on the nutritions in it. If there is no video about this theme on your channel yet, can you recommend something to read or to watch?
Excellent breakdown. One of the best debunks of that movie I've seen.
Is your diet sustainable for the entire world?
A lot of very disingenuous arguments and at least as biased as the documentary you’re trying to critique.
Love your channel and content, and really enjoyed this video, the environmental points at the end were misleading though. From my own masters almost all food emissions reduction pathways rely upon a significant reduction of meat consumed globally. It is fair to say this doesn't need to be an eradication, and there are reasons why a well managed sustainable animal product agriculture might bring some benefits, but it's not strictly necessary.
More importantly the methane point at @42:00 has a few flaws. 1. The methane is synthesised within cattle, it is far more potent than CO2 and is not sequestered in the same way as the carbon cycle. 2. The point that methane degrades after a short time (9 years-ish) so therefore a stable herd size = zero emissions is incorrect accounting, ignoring the fact that atmospheric methane concentration has nearly quadrupled in the last 250 years, and that to maintain a heard as opposed to downsizing it, carries an opportunity cost that maintains an artificially high concentration that will cause more warming.
Also herd sizes are being kept small in the western world partially as they are supplemented by imports from herd expansion in the developing world, who are seeing significant social and environmental impacts from the rise of industrial cattle farming.
On a similar point, a large amount of land use of cattle farming is due to either cattle feed been grown in significant volume, or forest clearance to graze cattle. Add to that the opportunity cost of not restoring wetlands/forestland/peatlands because it is needed for grass fed cattle – there are significant enviro-impacts.
Finally a large-proportion of the land inappropriate for crop agriculture that is used for grazing is used by pastoralists, a form of agriculture under direct threat from industrial farming and inconsistent with the 'efficiencies' needed to maintain the current trajectory of global meat consumption.
Again great video, it's given me a lot to think about from a nutritional perspective, but probably worth been careful on the environmental arguments if it's not a direct area of study.
I think we eat too much meat as a species. The environment is dying due to the industrialization of agriculture and people are looking for ways to solve that.
Really liked this video, appreciate the rigour. I think you’ve misrepresented the ecological argument in a couple of ways: the land use argument you make completely missed out the quite critical detail about monocrops used to feed livestock, and the methane ‘cycle’ really doesn’t make sense (if more methane is produced than degrades in the atmosphere, the levels will go up, even if it is a ‘cycle’. If we reduce methane production they will consequently go down and reduce the warming effect (very quickly- methane ‘lasts’ for around a year in the atmosphere compared to carbon’s 100)).
From a dietary perspective, it’s likely that timing of feeding is by far and away the most impactful and safe change one can make, and that restricting nutritional intake to any group of foods is bound to have negative consequences in the long term.
There is plenty of good literature demonstrating that eating animal products in the quantity we do in the west is unsustainable with our current methods of production. The greenhouse gas emissions alone make it pretty clear that we all need to cut down on beef and lamb in particular. If you were just responding to the documentary’s misrepresentation with countervailing arguments that were not addressed, that’s fair.
Best vegan debunking out there. Thank you for sharing this.
As always, this kind of content shouldn't be free! Thank you so much for providing both factual and insightful information.
Also I find it interesting that the chart you pulled up @29.50 has the USDA mark on it. According to another documentary I watched a few days ago on Netflix, "What the Health" (which also makes some crazy claims but always good for thought provoking) claims that the USDA is being driven by meat companies. This chart would be something they (the documentary) would have used for evidence for this claim. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about this idea that a lot of research has been backed and potentially, therefore, compromised by large corporations that produce meat. It wouldn't be the first time in history this has happened, ideas being pushed by companies that can profit from those ideas (similar to @32:10). I don't want to come off as anti-meat because of this, just wondering your thoughts since I have no real knowledge in this realm.
Despite the ruling parasites subjecting the world to a planned-demic (agenda 2030 ) and Australian big mouth politicians spilling the beans only a year later "We are in a New World Order. Get used to it," incessant vegan propaganda and supermarkets filling their fridges with plant-based meals, only 2% of the world's population has taken the vegan bait. In fact, the planned-demic had an opposite unexpected effect. 95% of former vegans abandoned it after suffering serious health issues and went Carnivore. They accomplished what their quack doctors could not. Viva Be Your Own Doctor.
Dave – you are a treasure. Thank you for this analysis – truly, it's very helpful!
I see a recurrence of the low fat trend that backfired and resulted in the obesity epidemic. Could we be looking back in 20 years asking ourselves how we all went vegan but are even fatter than ever?