Have the Giants awoken? I 30 years of Blues mediocrity I Darcy v Thilthorpe I On the Couch Full Show

Have the Giants awoken? I 30 years of Blues mediocrity I Darcy v Thilthorpe I On the Couch Full Show

[Music] Welcome on the couch. Well, the question on Jared’s lips and everyone’s lips is, is he in the pink? Well, he’s in the house and yes, he is in the pink. It’s great to have Mike Sheen here. It is big boy month and our big boys are away that are on that couch. So, we went and got some bigger boys. We got some older boys. Well, bigger boys, mid-season recruits, Mike and L. I’ve always been into mature age recruits. I think they’ve picked well. Uh, you certainly have. Now, you two haven’t been on the couch for a while, but let’s take a little trip down memory lane. 2006, I was I think it was the last time you two were seated at the couch together in uh well, in in a tux there, Mike. Jeez, the dress standards have dropped. M, you’ve got a you’ve got a denim shirt on there, Lee. Yeah, that was pre Brownlow. I think I was only a guest, of course. Mike Wy Wy going to the guest. Mike, we are very lucky to have you on. as Lee, we’ve had been lucky enough to have you on this year. Um, before I get into questions about you, I’m going to make this a little bit about us. How are you feeling at the moment, Jordy, being across from the best player ever, and I’m going to call you the best journalist ever. How are you feeling at the moment? Well, I brought my young boy in Freddy tonight and I said, “You’re going to meet the greatest player that’s ever played the game in Lee Matthews.” And I said, “And Mike Sheen, who you already know.” So, we’ve gone in terms of age and experience on the couch, we’ve gone basically from Essen to Collingwood over. Yes, which is uh which is not a bad thing. Me and I were saying before uh you were in primary school you two when we were at our zenith whatever that might have been. So which decade do you want to talk about? There’s a lot of decades we can talk. There’s a few between us but I want to ask Mike like obviously it’s great to have you on. Are you still a football connoisseur? Do you watch a lot of footy? I do. Not I’m not as passionate as I used to be. I’m more selective because probably a I don’t have to watch it for work and b sometimes I see games like Essen and Richmond and you couldn’t wish that on your worst enemy. So I I still love it but I don’t go to as many games as I used to and I’m more selective. Do you miss working in AFL football cuz it’s a it was your lifetime and it was and obviously you don’t do it anymore. No I don’t. Um and I’m not even sure sometimes why I do these these odd appearances. Um no I don’t miss the newspaper. I mean it was just it became sort of overpowering and I’m not I I don’t miss that. I miss doing open mic. I really enjoy doing that. Um and it’s 5 years since I did that and 12 years since I was sat on the couch. The the news cycle as a whole has has clearly changed from when you were doing it and even that footage that we saw there. What what’s your what’s your overall uh thoughts and opinion on how the news is generated these days? There’s an insatiable appetite for it. There’s so many newspapers, football shows, radio programs, and podcasts now that no one can get enough of it. But I mean, I’m a man of habit. Every day I get the Age and the Herald Sun and go to my favorite cafe and read them for an hour, hour and a half, and I like doing that. Yeah, it sounds very conservative, but I I that’s what I do. I love the papers. Uh and I love being up to date with the news. What sort of story ticker you fancy in the in the papers? What What do you look for? What do you enjoy? Probably longer form stuff. I mean, when I can read an in-depth piece about someone that I’m interested in, not so much about what the coaches say and, you know, the bloke talking about next week. That’s all we’re looking at and junk like that. I can bypass that. But I like learning things about people that I’m interested in. Well, we’re about to learn something here. I’m going to let you off the hook for one question because I’m going to ask Lee. We are six weeks out and the season is starting to heat up. You’re the greatest player of all time. You’re a premiership coach. just before you go to you know someone close that I picked Wayne that’s right I don’t know how he got on that you’re the greatest player of all time and Mike you’ve got you a second who would you like to be steering at the moment which club is the one that you think that would be the club if I was to go in there and grab them grab the reigns and and go into September which club is it for you I think it’s the top two are the one they’re the sort of proven ones that can do it in September I mean even the crows they got to prove they can do it in September so column had or the Lions. I mean, Colling would uh yeah, they they fell over, didn’t win on on Friday night, but I mean, they’ve been consistently good the whole year. So, so you couldn’t really go past that. I mean, that that the ladder really tells the the story of what’s happened for the first 16 weeks. So, it’s hard to think like you’re talk you’re talking about teams at their very best that that’s maybe slightly different. I mean, the Giants at their very best have looked really good. So, have the Bulldogs, but they’re seventh, eighth ninth. They’re uh you know Collingwood and Brisbane have been the most consistently good and the players Mike who you your famed top 50 which still lives on through the Chief Herald. Can I finish the discussion there? You can if you like. Yes. Now, I’m big on GWS and I I think as it’s an old one now, but premierships aren’t won in June and July and I just like the way that they’re coming to hand and I think their setup, their structure is I shouldn’t use I hate using that word, but I think there’s no obvious weakness in that lineup and they’ve got a player that I think is the face of the next generation of football in Finn Callahan. So, top 50, would you have him as the player for the next generation? No, I’d have Sam Darcy, which might sound contradictory, but I love this bloke. What is 6’4? He can run like the wind and he’s got a beautiful left foot. Left footers have got a natural advantage anyway, Lee, haven’t they? You reckon because everyone goes for the right foot by hand? No, I just think they’re more natural kicks. I think good left foot. Jordy, you’d agree with that, wouldn’t you? Well, I would, but he wouldn’t. I I I think you’re right. And and I think, you know, over the years when you’ve sort of looked at the Giants and a lot comes back to them being displaced in the first half of the season and then getting some continuity and and really making a a run for it. I think if you really take a deep dive into the Giants, um, they can be a they can be a serious contender. Where have you got them pegged, Mike? The Giants. They’re the team that I think is the one to beat. The team to beat. Mhm. You think the Giants are, in your eyes, premiership favorites? Well, I think I don’t like that term. I think they’re the team to beat. And what is it about them? What What do you I don’t see any obvious weaknesses in the side. They’re quick. Their their skills are beautiful. And I like the way they play footy. And I think if you if you um look at the improvements year on year, like you would think Cadman right now would be clearly better than he was last year and he’s not going to kick, you know, five or six goals every single week, but he’s more of a chance to do that now. Um and any Premiership side needs a needs a solid defense obviously and and a really um functional forward line. So the difference would be Cadman. difference might be Jake Stringer if he can if he can prove to himself that he can play in big games. So I think they’re better placed this year than they than they were last. They’ve got Hogan there too, Jordan and and Green they look really good and and the Callahan one I love BS look he to me I’m a no one’s a bigger admire of Marcus Bonipelli than I am but I think Callahan has almost taken the next step he’s quicker he’s no one’s in the competition is a better kick than him and he works hard. When you talk about defense and the book ends and we’ve seen the Giants, they’ve got both ends of the ground covered. Sam Taylor coming back at the moment, Lee, a team that maybe doesn’t have that is the Bulldogs. They’ve got the offensive side of it, but it’s the book ends that uh is the thing that’s being tested. They were conundrum, aren’t they? They got a percentage of 130 and they’ve ninth on the ladder. I mean, which goes to say there’s something something unusual. They can obviously score, but yeah, they get scored against, particularly against the very best teams. And it’s amazing, you know, when you think, okay, what’s the defense of the Bulldogs? Who comes to mind? Well, you had lob. Well, you know, Donald’s there, Bailey Dale runs off halfback. Like, who else is there? All of a sudden, they have a mishmash in their defensive six, I reckon. And whether they they bring Liam Jones back to have another big So, let Oddonnell be the third tool rather than try and be the second tool. I guess that’s the the conundrum for Luke Beverage in the coaching group. Do you think that Luke Beverage is got is anti Liam Jones? Well, he’s anti in the sense that he he doesn’t think he’s in his best six. Otherwise, he would have been there last week or something. Did they miss a trick not playing Liam Jones on the weekend with the three big bodies at Adelaide? It would appear so in all the logic, wouldn’t it really? I mean, you got Phil Thorp and then you got Walker and you got Fogy. So, you got they got three good marking players. If ever there was a time you’d if you got a a Leon Liam Jones type defender, you’d play them against the Crows. So I mean when when you say coaches are off players it means he doesn’t think they’re in their best if you’re in the it’s not they don’t like them do you think they’re in your best six or your best defensive group and clearly at recently he hasn’t believed and you develop preconceived ideas about about players cuz no doubt you you as a coach I imagine you see the best in them but also you can be drawn to the worst in them as well. Well that that’s the case. Yeah, but as I say, it’s it’s a judgment call clearly and we might argue and it does seem logical if if there ever was a forward line you play three taller defenders against, it’s the Crows and they chose not to. So, I don’t know what Liam Jones has sort of been doing like clearly Luke Beverage and the uh and the B and the coaching staff at the Bulls, they see them all the time. So, whatever’s going on, they haven’t uh haven’t made that choice. You mentioned the word conundrum. M the conundrum to me is Kane Corn is of the view that beverage can’t coach but he says they’ve got the best list in list in the competition. Now I’m Kane and I often banter about that. I think the list is overrated and I think Beverage can coach. Where do you sit on it? Well, he’s coached a premiership and he’s coached another team to a grand final. I mean it sort of validate. I mean I I can’t rate coach. I say to people there’s 18 teams, 18 coaches. I can’t tell you what each individual coach is contributing to his team. Like I don’t know even from inside the club it’s hard to make that call let alone sitting in the grand stand. I mean you see how the team plays but then connecting oh go they play that way because of the way this guy coaches him or another play another guy might coach him differently. I don’t look at uh footy like that. Do we overrate the role of the coach on match day? I mean Ross Lion has this huge reputation as being a great coach lateral thinker and all that sort of stuff. The Saints threw a game threw away a game on the weekend they definitely should have won and I didn’t see any any moves come from the box that was going to stem the tide when the Swans took over. To answer your question, I believe we take too much notice of the senior coach and therefore the influence or the role that they’re playing within his team’s performance. The art of coaching and and Luke Beverage at the moment with his defense like what what are you seeing? Well, I think the I think the conversation will always be around the players who are out. what could you do with bringing them back in and what and what they could add. But I think the thing that you know when you watch the game from behind the goals, which as players you never used to like because you always used to get found out, but what I see is a lack of leadership and and that comes out in um communication. So Luke Hodgej was the best I ever saw. If this vision was of Luke Hodgej, you would see his arms pointing and you could actually tell him yelling. too often when you see this Western Bulldog side mainly against top eight sides when you don’t have time to recover is a communication breakdown. So once again you’ve got O’Donnell here, Taylor Walker’s already in a strong position. He’s he’s watching the ball. There’s a handover. There’s been no acknowledgement of the handover from from Cfield. So right now you’ve got Taylor Walker in the leftand pocket with basically no opponent because all being drawn to to Isaac Ranken. So this this happens time and time again with the dogs. And I think what you realize is you’re always marked them against top eight sides and bottom eight sides. Well, bottom eight sides, you’ve got time to recover. So if this is a a bottom eight side and the ball is further up the field, there might be another mistake. So now Cfield’s got time to to reassess and come back on to Taylor Walker and and all against the good sides, you don’t have time. As soon as they turn the ball over, they are coming at you. And if you’re in the wrong position, if you haven’t communicated and you’re out of whack, you get that that type of result. The turnovers, the defensive half turnovers on the weekend were about the same. They’re about, they’re about 40. Adelaide kick six goals, six six goals, two to to Western Bulldogs, zero one point. The difference is the speed of turnover once you play the top echelon. Explain this to me. The Bulldogs have kicked 20 goals more than any other team in the competition. They’re 128 points clear of the next best. And why can’t they beat a good side? They’ve beaten up on the little boys. I I I think that So, you think they’re flat track bullies? Well, it it seems this year that that has been the profile suggests that like we’ve just seen the graphic there versus top eight. I think they don’t lock like in other words if they score great. You go back to center bounce but if you if you don’t score the ball bounces from their from their front half into their back half too quickly. Absolutely. So there’s there’s one the midfield pressure but the the really good sides and the really good defenses are set anticipating that there will be a turnover. I think what you see with the dogs is when they play the top sides and there’s a turnover further further up the field and there’s no midfield pressure, they are quite often out of position and there’s handovers, lack of communication and I think that’s evident by just watching the tape. Let’s talk about the team that they did that did do an absolute number on them and that was the Crows and the three-headed monster that is is Adelaide at the moment. Lee, I’ve had my doubts about it. I’m starting to come around that it can work. The the me the mechanical part of it starting to actually come together and it it is a a beast that no other team has. Well, it’s certainly dangerous. I mean, Phil Thorp has a really good forward who can be the second ruckman. That’s a really valuable role. So, that that part’s good. And Fogerty and and uh Walker seem to while they’re they’re they’re tallish key position players, they find holes in space and lead sideways and they certainly look like a team who who can score. We talk about the Bulldogs comparatively their defense is relatively unknown in name in reputation, but their defense is looking much more solid. I would have thought the Crows and that that’s where the two they look like they can score, but they also look a little bit more solid in that back group. Mike, give me a quick one because we’re about to move on to the Gold Coast. Sam Darcy or Riley Philorp looking forward um immediately or long term? in in the next three years. I think Darcy is the most exciting talent in the comp by a long way. And how close have you got Riley if you’ll f well closeish but not I’m I’m a massive Darcy. Can I say something about Sam Darcy? I hear people say when he’s ground level, gee, that’s really good for 28 cm player, right? But is is it so good for 195 cm player? In other words, he’s got to be able to mark the ball a lot because he’s pretty good at ground level. I I he’s a unique he’s a unique talent but I think it’s a bit like I don’t know whether he’s doing as much as everyone thinks he can do or is doing you know because his second effort stuff at ground level’s been good but it’s still that aerial stuff is still going to be the key and like on on uh Saturday was they played he was running under the ball all the time Jack you know when you’re trying to mark the ball up here even though you’re about 3 m up it’s very hard to hold it like that’s not normal that’s not usually He’s been No. Well, I think he’s Well, that’s why he might take the game apart when he gets the ball out of front a little bit more because anyway, I just I just think it’s some we’re kind of sort of uh ticking him for the agility he’s got when his game the aerial stuff is going to be the be all and end all. I think it will come and I think he’ll break a game apart very soon. and you were up and watched one of the AFL’s nepo babies as lost line describe them the Gold Coast Suns and in the first quarter first half it looked like they had arrived well they did I mean six goals they only kicked six goals when you say only but Collingwood didn’t score they only kick they kicked eight behinds but they were really good in that first half of the game the Suns and uh and R and Anderson yeah they were good up uh up around the middle but I mean as I say sometimes inaccuracy really distorts things so Collingwood were off the boil, but they were they were still only six goals behind when uh when they brought Scott Penalty back on. Yeah. And you can see the first half versus second half difference there. But the list difference in their demographic as well. Well, it was before the game and after. So, so you have a look at it what what the Suns are. They’re heavy in the under 25s and light in the over 30s. Colling would do exactly opposite. They’re heavy in the over 30s and light light in the under 25s. So what I I just think at the moment Collingwood are better turn than the Suns even though they didn’t get over the line on Friday night. But you’d think in two or three years time the Suns will be better than Collingwood just purely on those demographic kind of numbers. I I wouldn’t I didn’t think that Dimma was entitled to be happy with that result. They got out of it but they they gave it away and pinched it back. But I thought they they were poor in the second half. Talk about one of the great conundrums, the conundrum of minutes for Craig McCrae and obviously his aging stars. He spoke to Lee and the boys pregame. About a thousand minutes to go in the rest of the season. I I’m going to guess maybe there’s a thousand minutes left. I’ I’d hate to think that one player would play all those thousand minutes if that makes sense. Whether we manage them at training or we manage them, you know, with like Pendles tonight potentially, who knows? He can come on, he can play a full game. Um we’d be silly not to make the most of those opportunities. How hard’s the balancing balancing act in front of Craig McCrae and his staff in getting this right for for for the tilt at the Premiership Cup? I’d rather be in that position than in the position of still trying to make the aid or or in a less rebuild. I think it’s I think it’s difficult in a sense, but once again, Lee just showed the age and the demographic of the of the side. And I think that would be a really easy conversation. One, because the players know their body. two, because the the club is as confident in terms of the the fitness staff as as nearly any club in in the league. And and three, the players are selfless. Like, it takes a selfless player to be a sub to be able to manage their minutes. So, you you actually hand over a lot of trust to the to the fitness staff. So, I don’t think it’s a difficult thing to manage at all because the players buy into it. What about if Pendlebury, who prepares better than anyone that I’ve known in football, what about if he wanted to play all the time and he says to McCra, he says, “Don’t worry about the age.” I think they would have genuine conversations around that. But but then Scott, I think, would be thinking about, okay, so if I’m sub, it means whoever was sub last week or the week before then doesn’t have to be. So he gets exposed to AFL minutes. So then he’s better prepared to then come finals. So it’s not about Scott or how many years he’s played or it is about a holistic view. So that side is as well prepared as they think they can possibly be. Well, on Friday night that if Scott Pen sub, he’s better off if he’s played. Colling would have better off, right? So what they’re saying for for short-term pain, we’ll have him as a sub. Maybe hope he only plays 30 minutes, but he’ll be better in the weeks and the months ahead. And it’s something I reckon Jalong have been doing over the last decade. They even only have their top 21 performances are actually goes into the club championship voting because they know they’re going to manage players. And it’s interesting when you look at the top few teams and and and Jalong that the Lions they had about 12 players or half their team had played every game going into the grand final last year and you know how well they played. So maybe managing players Sydney Sydney was the opposite. But well, but it just seems to me that managing your players like if you’re going into a grand final that could be the 27th game like 23 plus potentially four finals. You’d think you don’t you you’d like players to have only played 25 24 25 games and and I reckon Jalong is certainly managing that and Collingwood is certainly doing that. The Lions Interesting because the Lions have sort of got those decisions to make. Do they just keep playing them? It’s compounding seemed to work last year. So it worked last year. But you didn’t risk blows. No. Well, as a coach, I could not possibly put a team out of our list that wasn’t going to give us the best chance of winning. But as I say, I think it’s such a brutally demanding game. Yeah, you’ve got to as they’re doing now, but with their training loads and all those kind of things, how do we get the best out of them and playing 27 games in a season just might not be up a lot of players might not be able to do that? Yeah, Hawthorne 13, 14, 15 clearly played every game of the season. 16 we ran out of gas right at the end. I think, you know, that that is maybe a little bit contributing to the the the massive seasons that you have when you’re at the top echelon. Well, Mike, I know you watch footy sporadically, but one of the big stories at the moment is the Carlton Football Club. Yes, it is. And we saw maybe a few little positive signs on the weekend, contested ball. Not on my telly. We didn’t. No, no positive signs from you at all. No, what do you make of it all? Well, I I I can’t understand. I can’t believe the decline in the Carlton Football Club since n in the 30 years since 1995, their last premiership. They’ve finished bottom six 16 times. This staggers me about them. I think you got a reason why. Well, my own unofficial view is Well, it’ll be official in a sec. Carlton didn’t care in the old age. If they had a problem, they got a the brown paper bag, filled it up, went into state. You mean you can’t buy premierships this century? And that’s a bottom that is the bottom line of it all. Like the Eagles are bottom of the ladder and they got more money than you can make a stick at. So you can’t buy and their list management has been poor. I’m not talking about not aiming in anyone particular but over a period if you go through and have a check their draft choices their trading’s been poor. The list management’s been poor and I I thought they were disgraceful the other night. Wasn’t that the they had they looked like they were having a go. They were just inept. That’s right. That’s why here are some of the errors from from the game against the obviously last year’s premiership winners in the Lions. And they’re are fundamental skill errors, Mike. They are. And in the first quarter, there were 12 occasions where they executed unforced errors by hand or foot. 12 in a quarter. So Graeme Wright comes into this football club. Graham Wright must be pair of the magician. But no, but what’s what’s the first thing on his list to do then? Well, if I grad I’d ring Ned Kelly and say, “Can I come back to Collingwood?” He’s got a massive task. Where do you start? Well, the Simon Lloyd and is it Brad? Brad um he’s in trouble. The recruiting people are in trouble and Voss’s in trouble. You think Voss is in trouble? Yeah, there’s no question he’s in trouble. So, do you think I mean he doesn’t go out and miss set shots for goal and and allow the ball to bounce through when there’s three people and then they don’t touch. That’s not his fault, but there’s something wrong in that footy team and he’s the coach and the buck stops with him. Do they need to go and get a premiership coach then? Because they’ve done that. Is that not the history of that you’re talking Nick Mold House and Dennis Pagan? And I don’t think either of them were impressed with what they found at Cton. But they’re a long way about off worrying about interesting case study though. I mean the the the great the great sides of uh of the ‘ 90s, you know, we talk about Carton, we talk about Essenden and and they’ve just failed to get the club in a position of of strength and maybe that’s overindexing in the stars which what what brought them premierships in the 80s and and 90s and that hasn’t that hasn’t served them well in the well that era that 95 carton team had cuda who was for his for a period was the best player in the competition. Kernahan, Diesel, Bradley, Mai, Camperelli, Clappe and Sporting all came from Interstate. So they just targeted them and oh four four days before the uh before the when you when you actually went and got players from Interstate rather than they were just all in the draft. So you know it helps when you can do that but the selection since have been poor. They’ve got the worst recruiting record in the competition I reckon. What do you think needs to happen with within Carlton from a list point of view? Oh, I’ve said it, what did it say? Two weeks ago. I think there there really needs to be a a point in time where they sit down and work out who’s got currency because if you look at their list right now, this is not going to be their next premiership list. No. So, the honest conversations will happen with the players and and Graeme Wright is the perfect guy to do this having list management experience and now the now the CEO who’s got currency. I thought Melbourne missed a trick last year with the players who wanted to leave. Oliver and Petra. Oliver and Petra wanted to leave and now their currency is not as strong as it was was only 12 months ago. Um so if they don’t make these decisions I think at the end of this year like I said a couple of weeks ago I think they’ll put themselves back another 5 to 10 years. Their currencyy’s diminished though. I don’t think this year and and Brisbane I don’t think there was a carton player who warranted a spot in the Brisbane team. Yeah. I don’t think this year. I think if it if it then goes on for one or two more years, those players become um become irrelevant. The list where it always starts. I’m not not the it doesn’t start because it’s like the end of the process, but doing a good list management, recruiting, free agency picking up, that’s what any team has to do to be any good. Plenty to play out for Carlton. And there’s plenty to play out at the tribunal as well. John Ralph has the latest on a kangaroo who’s cpped a heavy suspension. Hello, Jack. Yes. a 3-we ban for Tristan Cherry for his strike on Tom Sparrow. Now, the rules will decide tomorrow about an appeal. I think it’s more likely, but they there are some grounds if they’re a little bit sketchy. So, this was basically a coat hanger motion. As you see here though, Christian Salem pushes Jimin who then pushes Sparrow. You can see Sparrow pitch forward and lower his height. So, there is a case to be made that potentially that mitigated the circumstances, but it’s going to cost another 10 grand under the soft cap. They’ve already lost that with Jackson Archer and Paul Curtis, guys. So yeah, I think 3 weeks and I think it’s going to be hard for him to overcome that one. What do you make of that, Lee? Well, I think he’s probably guilty and the matrix says if you get the if the victim gets concussed, you get three weeks and just not just in terms of though a comparison with Ed Richards a couple of weeks ago against Luke Davis Juniac. Like he he had the ball and as he approached Davis Uniak, he put his elbow up basically or his forearm up and hit see this one in the head there. Now, they they let they let him off because that maybe was worth a week, but if he’d been found guilty, it was going to be three weeks. And I I I was really interested how the how the match review would look at the cherry one because that it wasn’t that much different. I mean, he hung his hand out there. He was probably guilty, but because it’s an automatic three weaker even I just wondered whether the match review panel, even the tribunal been saying, “Oh, it’s either naught if he’s n or three and three is too much.” And I reckon three is too much. But but the bloke was knocked out. Yeah, that’s why it’s three. That’s You always have this debate about whether it’s the action or the consequences. But when a bloke is KO’ed, he was out cold. So there has to be a if you find him guilty. Yeah. If he’s found guilty, that’s what I’m saying. And he’s been found guilty. So it’s three weeks. But I thought Richard was just as guilty, but he got off. Watch this space. But Elder was concussed as well. as well. Yeah. I think it’s not it’s not a great look when someone gets knocked out and then falls to the floor. I I think he’s unlucky in a sense because I think he was pushed. I thought his helmet actually actually came down a little bit which might I don’t reckon they’re going to use that as an exp which might not but I thought that was a you bit of a side. Would you appeal it? I’d app lost twice Mike. But we’ve got to get on to the player because we have got one of the great debates happening after this. We’re going to chat all things State of origin, the great game of AFL, and the great spectacle of State versus State. We are going to have that debate right here on the couch. [Music] Hit me the first weekend of March how make believe February foot is. This thought of playing State of Origin in the middle of February is either crazy or demeaning State of Origin. One or the other. Well, how could it work? And I’m in agree with you there, Lee, that February is not the time for the State of Origin footy. But Mike, how could it work? Well, I love it, Jack, like you do. And I would like to see it back, but I don’t want the AFL saying we’re going to play it in the school holidays. Who plays who and when? That’s good enough. We’ll answer that. We play Victoria plays either WA or SA. Western Austral one one year and then they play the other the next year. Don’t forget Adelaide and South Australia have got gather around. That’s their that’s their little thing at the moment. First year, so next year, round 12. We’ve had an absolute cluster this year with with the buyers. Five weeks of buyers. That did not work. That cannot happen next year. We need a seasonwide buy round 12 next year. And you can see there, Western Australia play Victoria at Opta Stadium on Saturday night. And it is one of the great spectacles. It might be the best spectacle behind AFL Grand Final Day, Lee. Well, as is it is in rugby league. They’ve taken our idea, but they don’t have to decide who’s playing who. There’s two states that play each other. They just play them over two years. Rugby League have taken this concept from the AFL and turned it into the biggest TV event of the year. But the other thing, they play it Wednesday night. Jack, could we play it to make it a really spectacle? Could you play it midweek? Stand alone on the weekend in the buy. The whole AFL world stops for one of the great spectacles of AFL. There you can see Western Australia v Victoria, two squads of 26 plays. So you allow a few more on the bench to then obviously manage the minutes which is a big thing. Obviously injuries as well but injuries happen. Uh and I think with the financial side of this too that this is something Lou that the players would absolutely jump at as they jumped at gather as well when that was proposed. Everyone talks about the game being too long. Maybe this could be a shorter game as well. And to appease some of the the other players, there’s no Thursday night footy there, so no one’s coming off and having a 5-day break. At least there’s a six day break there. This could be one of the great jewels in the crown of the AFL. Yeah. Well, I think well be one of the great things if Swany can get it up if he’s passionate about it. I mean, you’re the you’re the latest uh player to come out and retire. I can see how passionate you are. The thing that I think you Jordy I would have loved to have played. Absolutely. Hands down. And um cuz you played for free. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, do you think there needs to be a financial um remuneration for players to Well, we know the players these days, they don’t do anything for free. So, um I I think the other thing that you know the more you think about it is players who are unlucky to go to clubs who aren’t aren’t successful and then they finish their career and they’ve had really good careers. If they earn a chance to play for their state, their CV post their career is well credentialed. It doesn’t say a premiership, but it says I’ve been a six-time Victorian representative or or a six-time WA represent, whatever it might be. It actually gives these players something to be to be proud of. Um I I like it. I would have loved to have played. I think there’s genuine excitement if they could if they could get it up and and I think you’re right. If you played in Perth, which they love their sport, I think it would be great spectacle. Well, we we we have too much footy here. No, but this elevates the game to another level in in I wouldn’t be I wouldn’t be locked on playing it in Victoria. It’s a different game. I mean, you you played it. The ball never hit the ground. It was just people who love football love watching the best players play. And the AFL were clever enough or lucky enough to have Lockett and Dunto commit to play and then everyone followed suit because the big boys were in. 90,000 people at the game and then they just discontinued it. It was just an abominable decision. Yeah. I think if putting my players hat on, if there was a if there was a decision to be made whether you are representing Victoria or your club mid-season, I would I would play for the state. Good. We sold you on state of origin. Well, you still got the problem of like there’s what what are those ally those passionate ally supporters out there? I am being for and the South Australian ones because that’s the problem. There’s four groups. Yeah. But there’s four groups. All I’m saying is the point. You got to have a week off. That’s the point. If you’re going to play it, then you’ve got to have a weekend off and play it in that midseason. In that mid-season that part I agree totally. And if you debate, we need to make it happen. Mike, and I’m with you, Jack all the way. And if you don’t make yourself available, Victoria, you don’t play the following week for your club. Well, it’s a dual invoice night for Johnny Ralph. We’re going to head back into the new newsroom in Ralphie. The fallout at West Coast uh continues. Yeah, no one seems to be happy across the whole league about the four-week ban by Jack Graham for his homophobic language. Now the fans are wondering why Willie Rioli got only a oneweek ban for his inflammatory and violent language against an opponent online. The Eagles might have hoped for a greater discount given that they did self-report and Jack self-reported. I think the AFL would be asking the Eagles the question why did it take a full week for you to come forward with the news of that homophobic language and so why are the differing suspensions? So Jeremy Fin L in April last year got a three-week ban for his homophobic language. Now four weeks later, Willpower got five weeks cuz the AFL felt like that already put a shot across everyone’s boughs. And then Lance Collard got six weeks because of multiple infractions, repeated infractions against multiple opponents in the VFL. And now Graeme gets four because he self-reported to the AFL. It’s an absolute dog’s breakfast. And so that’s why the AFL PA is really keen on a code of conduct. They think it would be a consistent framework in regard to discipline. So if it’s GWS and Wacky Wednesday, whether it’s um some of those players like Bailey Smith, of course, and his dramas with conduct unbecoming, or if it is for homophobic language there, we’d get due process. We’ get players able to see what they’re alleged to have been charged with, and potentially we’d see what the AFL wants, which is consistency there. It’s in the CBA. It’s supposed to have been been brought in by September last year. It hasn’t happened yet. The AFL is dragging their feet, guys. That’s the acting CEO of the AFLPA. What do you think about something like a framework? Because right now, no one knows what any penalty will be. Mike, what are we to make of that? Four four examples and none of them align with the actual week’s suspension. No, they’re not. And this won’t be make me popular or any more popular. You’re already not popular. That’s But but the um I was staggered when I read that that he’d got four weeks. I mean, imagine, right? And let’s say he called him the f- word. I mean, it’s like that bloke who was going to murder Michael Voss. I think it’s been blown out of proportion. Not because I don’t know about that. I think four weeks is the right amount here. But I think consistency, Mike. Yeah, that’s we’re agreed on that, but I don’t think it’s the carrot and the stick. I’m not sure hitting them over the head with the stick and sort of four weeks, five weeks, six weeks, whatever it is, is the right way to handle it. How would you handle it then? Well, I think it’s an education thing. I think that comes along with the suspension as well, right? Well, notionally, but what we’re only interested in what the immediate impact, aren’t we? He’s got four weeks. I think you just sort of say this is embarrassing. Jack was embarrassed about it. He rang player X and and it becomes part of we educate people rather than just hit him over the head with a stick. Well, he’s got to serve some sort of penalty and that penalty will be four weeks. Greg Swan is the other big talking story, Ralphie. And he starts next Monday. Yeah, feet under the desk on Monday at AFL House and I can tell you some of the big ticket items that he’s likely to get started on straight away. So, those who know him really well believe that he’s very keen to try and reduce the length of games. Now, in three of the games this weekend, we saw 130 plus minutes. Now, I think he would do that not by getting 15 by 15 minutes and time on, but potentially say throwing the ball up straight away after instead of waiting for Ruckman to try and get to contest. I think he’d be really open to an SFNFL style last touch rule, whether that’s um kicking the ball or handballing it over the boundary in between the arcs. And those who know him really well suggested that the co’s conferences across the years, he’s been really strong on getting rid of the bounce. You know, he said to people that look, the umpire shouldn’t have a party trick to officiate. You can see how long this can take here. You know, 10 12 seconds if you got rid of most of those throwins as well. Of course, one last kick, play on, we would reduce the amount of games. And I also think you can expect that he would drive down the highway and speak to Steven Hawking. What’s the intent of the stand rule and why are the clubs bastardizing it by dragging themselves back off it? So there come a couple of the things that he’ll be thinking about, guys. What do you think the priorities should be for Greg Swan in his first weeks at the AFL? Well, it’s a long list, Ralphie. It is a long list of priorities, Lee. the MRO. Surely that’s priority number one. Yeah, clean that up. Just make sure it’s fit for purpose. I think we know it’s not because what does that mean, Lee? Well, it means look the situation we know where Curtis got three weeks for attack because the guy got concussion. Cherry’s going to get three weeks for maybe a weak penalty. It should be because the guy got concussion. So, the system is wrong and and that should be able to be cleaned up fairly easily. I don’t know why the AFL haven’t done it straight away because as soon as the Curtis got his three weeks, the system was out. It was wrong. Um, so anyway, that’s that’s what and anything to do with umpiring is always interesting. But remember the the head of man the head of footy doesn’t he does he’s not coaching the umpires. There’s a fair hierarchy. What I would be saying to the umpire’s coaches, you coach them to do what we want them to do, not what you want them to do. That may umpire is on your radar, Jordy. Oh, I think they need to reduce the umpires or or at least look at where they where they stand because I think consistently week on week and this is this is not their fault. They’re once again probably coached to to do this. But one umpire who’s looking at it pays one decision. He’s got the best view that and the only umpire who cannot see plays pays play on because he’s nearer but he does he doesn’t have the best view. No. So so this is this is always the issue. So this is a this is another one another example. the umpire with the best view doesn’t pay what should have been a high free kick and the umpire with so I I constantly see it I had a few more examples to to show tonight but um they’re in the road they’re they’re coached to to stay in the corridor which I don’t think has has the best view they back out of the they back out of the I think I think it’s clearly something that he needs to address and sometimes more is is not necessarily you know you talk about the best view the best view is a TV camera with the elevated view do you think we ever come to a stage where there is someone in the arc who can sort of pay free kicks or turn them over if they’re they’re paintly wrong. I I think zone umpires is potentially the way to go forward and actually doing more research on the zone that they they they umpire holding the ball le that’s on your way. The one that that when you’re pinned with one arm and you got the ball in the other arm, you can’t do anything with it. But somehow someone in the umpiring fraternities decided that should be holding the ball. So that’s become a p a perfect tackle. Ball’s in the opposite hand. You grab the left hand. There’s no way you can legally dispose of it. Automatic free kick. I don’t as I say it’s a bug bear of mine because that’s become normal. And I don’t know who the hell said that’s should be the rule. There are two black and white things in my view. Get rid of the bounce in an elite competition. You can’t have um the B blowing the whistle. Give it back to me and I’ll do it again. And the other one is if it goes out of bounds anyway, it’s the last player to touch it between the arcs. You control them in a state of origin game in the middle of the season. Lee, well, I got an absolute beauty for you. It is the good, the bad, and the ugly, which I know you haven’t done before, and we’ll do that next. [Applause] [Music] Uh the guests come on and I get demoted to the ugly. The two good over there. Very very good. Very very good. What’s that on the top line? We’re about to put our feet up. Well, I’m about to start. I’ll go the good and mine was the dockers in the last quarter on the weekend when the game was there to be won. They were fantastic in quarter number four. And their ability to win ground balls. All four goals had a critical ground ball in them at some point. They that is a sign of work rate from you can see the numbers there plus 26 points smacked Hawthorne all around the park but it came down to the effort of just wanting to get ahead of the ball and wanting to get ground balls there. Fantastic effort from Dockers who really needed to win that Jordy. Uh I’ve gone up to GWS. So Locky Whitfield plays his 250th, but this was after the game. Locky Whitfield, a massive Liverpool fan. Uh, and they decided to get a massive banner there and play the never the you’ll never walk alone song after. His grandfather was grew up in Liverpool. But I just thought it was a great touch. Just signs of really good culture and the joy and and that brings to the Giants. lethal. Well, Scott Penbury, uh, you you see role model leadership because that’s the example they set, but the influence they have on people around them is sort of unmeasurable, but I reckon if you measured it, Scott Pen will be about to be the top of the heat. I mean, it it just happened that he was sort of sub came on Halime, Connor would look like a different team. I think the calmness and just just the way that he actually can organize and manage his players around him. Not not in I suspect a really harsh way, but just I I think that influences he’s maybe still calling most most valuable player. Oh, I like that. Wow. I like that. Have you got an apology here now? No. I’ve got an acknowledgement of different Jack. Okay. Sorry. Go on then. I’ve been a a harsh critic of Grundy’s for probably 18 months. I thought the best game I’ve seen him play in five years was at the weekend and his last quarter when the game was in the balance. He was the most decisive player on the ground. There was a knockout. Like you Lee, I’m not a big rabbi Ruckman, but he there was a beautiful palm to Gordon. Yeah. Um there and the goal and there’s the game. It’s great Ruckcraft. I’m from the same game, but this is this is this is my bad. So I think we all understand the 666 rule. You’re you’re across the 666 rule. You get a you get a warning first off. So this is Windhagger. So he was the one that was out of position that gets the warning. So he more than anyone should uh understand. So then that happens. They get a warning. Center bounce go down. Sydney keep then come back after the golden goal and Windhager has forgotten about the 666 which then forced the umpire to uh to make a free kick and to Brody Grundy and that was that was game done. And that’s where the stoppage came where Gordon kicked the winner. Mike, your bad. My bad was the um the vision of Andrew Brachure after the Freo game. Now Kath Lachlan with Kath. He had no nothing wrong with the interview. Brachure looked like he’d been to Gipoly. He’s got a hole in his head. Blood streaming everywhere. I I’m not sure who’s at fault except I think Frio should have said we’re not going to put him on. We’ve been finding people for putting the finger up. That’s the the worst look. If if I were a mother at home and particularly Brachaw’s mother, she’s lost what one son’s not playing league football because he’s had so many head knocks and there’s the other son with that vivid evidence of what’s happened to him. So I thought it was a bad look. Watch for the dockers there Lee. Well, we had a bit of reunion up there on Friday night pre the the Suns Callingwood game. There was Lynchy Brownie myself and Fly just left him hanging. Oh, finally he said I better I better actually shake the hand of the Premiership coach. forced him into it. Well, uh, footy, I love footy and I love the Tigers, but my gosh, Saturday night, Richmond vied, that was ugly in all sense of it. And you look at the statistics there, lowest scoring game at the G since 1989. I was born in 1988, so I was one year old when that was happening. It’s no highlight. One goal after three quarter time, and there was one goal in quarters two and three from both teams combined. It was a horrible one. Your best in playing prime time games. Well, my ugly um is concerning the Carlton game and uh the general lack of leadership with the Blues at the moment and he is one of them. McGovern, senior player, well played player. He had 90 seconds to get prepared for that marking contest and ends up putting one arm up and I just think that’s a really bad look when your side is going as poorly as the Blues were. Yeah, not a great look there. Well, Harley Rude, I remember the first program I was on, we spoke about his development. He’s only in his second year, but his false bravado aggression to me is ugly and it’s really costly both to him and and and the Eagles cuz he gives away a lot of free kicks. I’m not sure what he thinks he’s doing. I mean, uncontrolled aggression is really, as I say, it’s really bad,000 for that. We should watch Cam Raina who’s a big strong man. Aggression at the ball, at the tackle, or to break tackles. That’s that’s it in modern footy. Anything other than that is just false bravado and a waste of time. Do you think he attacks the ball fiercely enough? I’m not I haven’t seen enough to say yes to the question. I’m not sort of question it so much but but he has to. I mean he that he’s big strong man but most of the strength at the moment or most of it is in a false provado abusive sort of getting involved in verbal stuff. Is Harley Reed at the West Coast Eagles in two years time? No. What about next year? Um, I would think unlikely, but I’m not sure. But I it’ have to be after the feedback he gave to Jason Francis. One year he went home to mom. Yes. Very interesting. Back. Well, I’ll tell you what we do have. We do have the baseball back. Uh, we’re not going to have singing the praises. There you can see the baseball. The late great Robert Wolves, an old sparring partner of yours, Mike. And you’re going to bring it out next. I cannot wait to see what you’ve got for us. Baseball after this. [Music] We got the Robert Walls medal up for grabs tonight. Jason, you’re voting on that for the player that embodies the late Robert Walls. He was a captain and a coach at both clubs. It’ll be a significant honor for those those players chasing it tonight. Yeah, he better be tough. Right tackle. Another one of those. I’m going to bury your tackles. Dunley cuts it off, but marked by Dunley. Dunley’s been magnificent. He’s fought the fight tonight. The inaugural Robert Walls medal goes to Josh Dunley. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] Ah, yes. A very deserving winner of the first Robert Walls medal there presented by Daniel Walls, Robert’s son. And we’re going to go back to a bit of Wall Street. This is what should have been presented. Jack, can you give us a bit of an insight into the batten Robert. No one can dispute this. So I’m saying I I coined the phrase the baseball bat because when Walsie took aim he hit you hard and he you could see it coming cleared the throat uh prepared and then went bang. And if he if he were here now who is it? He would take this bat line it squarely at the West Coast Eagles. West Coast. Yes. and say, “Why didn’t you BS have the Jets crackers three years ago to draft the local boy Daniel Curtain rather than fall in for the the stampede about Harley Reed? He’s an amazing talent. This kid Adelaide took this kid at number eight, right? He played for Claremont. He should have been playing for West Coast and they would have had him for 15 years.” And he wanted to play for West Coast, too. A local boy. Yeah. I mean, I I I can’t understand why clubs generally don’t pick local BS because you you remove that threat of them going home. A lot of them go home. Yeah. I defend Eagles a fraction by saying if he was second or third pick, you might, but it’s a fair gap between what a a one pick is rated as an eight pick. Well, he’s 20 and he’s 1977. He’s a good player and he’s playing very well in the He’s a very good player. Now, Mike, we’re coming to the end of the show. How have you enjoyed being back on the couch? Love. I didn’t know I’d left. He didn’t know you’d left. He looks comfortable. I can tell you. I am. And if I can reach the table, I’d Can we have you next week? Are you going to come back next week? Well, I’d have to see what the reviews are like. All right. We’ll get upstairs and sign the contract. He’s coming back next week. This is on the couch. We can’t wait to see you next Monday.

Mike Sheahan returns to On The Couch alongside Leigh Matthews, Jack Riewoldt and Jordan Lewis to review a bumper Round 18
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