BRAD GILBERT – Full Interview

BRAD GILBERT – Full Interview

all right I am so excited uh this this kind of new Venture podcast um one of the people as soon as I decided I was going to do this with who I knew I had to have on uh because he’s endlessly full of information and endlessly entertaining is my old coach uh uh my friend uh Brad Gilbert uh the legend Brad Gilbert how are you BG good morning how are you buddy and Brooklyn must have done a little bit of artwork there because normally on Tennis Channel looks like you’re in the closet or the bathroom so background setting has massively improved I see on the new set I appreciate you yeah we had to we had to step it up a little bit after you know four years of basically looking like I was The Blair Witch Project we had to uh we had to step it up uh a little bit and listen we’re going to get to All Things Andre and Murray and your playing career and kind of this magical journey that you’re now on uh with Coco but I think one of the things that doesn’t actually get talked about enough and it’s been written about uh you had talked about it uh in your books before um but it is very weird for someone to start coaching another top player while they’re actually active on tour and do I remember correctly that you were actually ranked higher than Andre when you started coaching him yeah I was and in 1994 in Miami I think I was about 25 in the rankings Andre had dropped to 30 because he was coming off a wrist surgery and missed eight months he really wasn’t a 30 player in the world um and he asked me out um to go to dinner um maybe the night before the tournament started at fiser Island first of all i’ never heard of fiser Island and nor did I ever know in Florida that you could put your car on a ferry and go to a restaurant um and then that kind of LED on the journey that I didn’t realize that they were actually thinking about you know me as a coach nor at that point was I thinking about coaching because I was still you know the tennis player but I was probably six months to a year away from what you’ve been talking about with anyy Murray or other players that question that you’re going to get asked what are you going to do next what is your next move I was you know I but I feel like as a player if once you start to talk about that yep the corer is right there yeah so I was probably in denial about it but once your ranking is still okay you try to not think about it you know and but was it was was it uh were you offended at all that Andre could kind of uh realized that the end was near for you and just plainly said it um well he didn’t say that but he did take me to the Woodshed in Scott still like two weeks before two W in the cold night match um in his first tournament back which he won um I I I I think it was more about he was asking me about where he was going in his career did didn’t he still or did I feel like there was potential for him to go where he needed to go which I thought like for me was an obvious question I said you’ve lost to me four times and there’s absolutely zero reason you should ever lose to me and I always felt like there was no reason that he needed to always try to be too good as a player when 99% of the time when you’re gifted you just need to be better than the dude on the other side of the deck and that gets lost sometimes from players when you feel the need to be too good or beat the entire draw and one match yeah it’s it’s funny because as you’re saying that I had this flashback to uh last weekend when we were out in Vegas and I was just rapping with Andre and one of his overriding points about alcaraz was that he tries to be he has to feels like he has to play great to win and it’s funny because he’s almost regurgitating uh what you told him 30 years ago he’s totally in that situation right now a little bit like I’ll go way back 40 years ago I remember 1984 I gave some tickets to wday wanted to see mael play at San Francisco and he went out one easy I asked a couple about how was the mess and they go was shitty and I mean he went two in one he didn’t do nothing you know so that’s yes yes that that’s perfect like yeah like Novak is the master of that and if alarz doesn’t do some incredible slide he doesn’t do something you feel now because you’ve seen it so he is all of a sudden besides beating somebody they want to see a show so that’s a tough burden to always have to be where a guy like C’s game is is a little more like a you know a modern Novak or Andre just it’s hard and fast but it’s not as it’s this excitement other than amazing ball striking but you want to see the the Road Runner skills and the defensive skills the offensive skills from alrass and so he has to learn to deal with that now so I I have a question and I I hope I articulate it correctly I I I was someone who the next time I hit Top Spin on a backend it’ll be the first time right I I had serious things that I had to negotiate uh around I think you were the type of player also where you problem solved a certain way you get a lot of credit for the way you got through matches you said you know in the in the answer two questions ago that Andre should have never lost to you four times now if you were never going to be the best player in the world do you think think the fact that you had to figure out and negotiate ways to win matches is that what has helped make you one of the best coaches in the world do you think if you would have had all of the levers of talent available as a player that you would be as good of a coach as you you’ve ended up being I mean it’s a good honest question I’ll give you a word that’s really important for a lot of levels of tennis players even the ones that are incredibly gifted I say manage you have to learn how to manage eles and be honest with yourself so many players are not honest with what they don’t do well they overestimate what they don’t do well and they think it’s a really good shot I knew my back can was just a decent shot but I never tried to rip it I might go six months before doing it but yet I wouldn’t miss it and there’s a lot of players today that you feel like have like a marginal shot but yet they’re trying to pull trigger on it all the time so it doesn’t equate the numbers that like all of a sudden you’re you’re trying to rip that shot it doesn’t make any sense um with your backend you did a pretty good job of managing it um probably in retrospect that maybe if I would have thought about it a little bit you know because Andre told me the first time he goes why doesn’t he have closed grip on the two-ended backend because only David Ferrer was one that had that even wider separation for you but I did feel like you managed the backend really well and I think the thing that we probably did the best for you in a short period of time the first day that I saw you doing practice at Queens in 2003 besides the backwards visor and up and the disgusting gel in your hair dripping on your shirt that’s such an exaggeration and you had oil stains on your shirt that’s such an exaggeration to to you’re you’re letting time get in the you’re letting the truth get in the way of a good story yeah don’t let it get in the way of a good story and you prefaced by you were already prepping me that like what we were about to do in the grass doesn’t count because I suck on grass and you said that maybe the only person that I could beat on grass was a British wild card and like instantly in my brain I say you serve well you got a big forehead and alls we have to do is just tweak one thing is your return of serve because remember then you were standing on the Baseline like Andre but yet you would miss too many returns I’m moves you back like 5et let’s make some returns so with you is just a small little tweak that changed how matches started you make a couple of returns you steal a break all of a sudden by the end of Queens you were thinking grass isn’t so bad yeah grass ended up being uh okay for me and I I remember those those first couple of days uh well it was like a new beginning when I actually had space to operate um so a couple of things I get asked a lot um about different coaches I had and what you know some did well and what some you know what other people and they ask what makes Brad so special as a coach and I said okay so there’s a tonal awareness and there’s an ability to recognize when to deliver the information where the U his player is ready to receive it right so like I know Andre would want to go on and you guys would have maybe a 4-Hour conversation he could be right off the court and you guys would settle in you know I I used to walk past you guys in locker rooms and you guys were like fully on one like going after it I didn’t like doing that at the courts I wanted to get in and get out so you would approach dinner and you would say Okay level with me here for 15 minutes and you knew that I you had my attention I was calm I was not in an emotional state where does that instinct come from is it something that’s natural for you or is it uh just a a general awareness something you have to think about H how does that manifest uh in in such expertise I mean it’s a great great question in coaching and that you and Andre couldn’t be further from you know the Spectrum same like with an Andy Murray before a match maybe 15 seconds was all I was going to get with you and do you know one time you know I remember one time you were playing serial sonier at Indie and I didn’t think the guy could hit a backhand down the line the guy hit like 10 back hands in a row down the line you started railing on me but a couple times you could be pry brass before match and I wanted you to play a gu’s forehand every once in a while i’ tell you to play the backand then you would tell me in the St see you were wrong see it’s see it’s about you know understanding the player Andre like to talk along a long period of time bad matches and afterwards you needed space get in get out you know who’s very similar to you about information is coko Koko you can’t go a long period of time if she’s a little bit like you the mission impossible this message will implode in 10 seconds and so you have to understand that and that’s that’s the cool thing about coaching and and I also feel like that I learned a lot from my coach Tom shington and that I don’t have a philosophy I don’t feel like I take a player and then some coaches feel like okay this is the type of player each time I want to mold them into I’m always thinking about what maybe my player doesn’t do that well how are you going to manage that and how are you going to maximize what you do well and probably now when you watch I think the most important factor to being great is how do you manage that dip like CIS could be playing awful and he could be it for all how often have you seen Joker you know what he’s not at his highest level but he’s still on ser and all of a sudden if you have a dip he can bite you in the ass you know in 11 minutes that to me is the difference between being good and being great how do you manage when you’re not at your best and how do you take advantage quickly another thing that you are an absolute expert at is I’ve see so many coaches right and I I watch them operate and I hear what they’re saying and they’re telling their Player 11 different things uh during a practice right it’s like your swing Arc your prep your this that the footwork you got to be a 90 degree angle you got to and it’s like your head’s going to explode you are so good at focusing around two or three talking points at a time you go in there’s a focus you mentioned that first day at Queens we’re going to take a step back that’s going to free you up and you say it with a confidence where even if I’m on the fence there’s still a belief system is that something that’s intentional or do you just do you just feel like you have to kind of tackle one problem before you can actually commit to another one um I feel like too many coaches in practice get too technical I mean I see it like every day on the court yesterday and I’m amazed how many coaches are so technical during practice and they feel like every swing you did something wrong and I’m like man if you want to find something wrong you will but it’s to me it’s not like the time to be doing that and probably my alltime pet peeve my coach Tom shington ped PE why’ a coach just stand so close to the player when he practices give him some space who should be nowhere near the court when they’re playing you should never be standing Andre would go nuts if like the coach was standing behind the player when he serving just gives some space gives him freedom and a lot of times we’re un limited time like at these tournaments so you’re trying to maximize and think about you know maybe some of the things that I might be saying or is for the match tomorrow or maybe you you know maybe let’s work on a couple acrosses here because maybe we can do that a little bit more tomorrow in the match situation because I think it’s all there’s practice when you’re off that’s a time to work on things that’s like you have a little Grid or you have a long block getting ready for a show but when you’re at the tournament the the tournament’s not the time to be getting fit you know if you’re trying to get fit at the tournament you’re you’re you’re in the [ __ ] and we we shouldn’t be trying to make technical changes it now you’re just trying to get ready to have this ability to turn on tomorrow and then tomorrow the the next day you know how am I going to you know fix my practice schedule to get ready for the match we probably have a lot of listeners who aren’t like your first coaching gig was with Andre Agassi right and then you know you you pick up with Coco when we got together I had we had a lot of Runway to improve on but I think I was six in the world uh when we when we started do these uh the way you approach that and with the the technical part of coaching does that apply to all levels or is it uh something that you can do because you’re dealing with players of a certain level like with the wck players and coaches that are you know coaching Juniors is that still the same totally the same but you were 10 by the way um call I call I call [ __ ] on that for 20 by the way I I’ll go back and have a research okay you ever play back in uh no but I know that I was six in the world I I doubl the cube and say that you were 10 you got okay um when I start coaching the player let let’s say it’s a pro I try to think about whatever has happened before doesn’t matter and you don’t compare one player to the next player I started thinking and I started looking looking through your lens what can we do to start getting better and it’s only you know in tennis way too many players and coaches think about what we’ve missed and what’s happened in the past that’s not helping you what’s helping you now is getting ready for what’s upcoming um and probably you know if I’m working with the club player I start thinking about in the same terms I feel like Club players way more overestimate their weaknesses massively Coco’s physio Maria she 40 years old she’s an Argentinian lady she was playing the match yesterday and she lost to another Argentinian physio in s in 76 and I was out there walking in the morning and I gave her a couple tips I said you know what if you play to your straights you beat that guy 6’2 there’s no reason with your quickness that you’re trying to pull triggers you should be a pusher you should like when the balls hi you your back end back up manage how you’re playing and a lot of Club players do not understand screaming winner one point it’s the dumy errors that cost you the match and it and believe me all the way through the juniors in college that stuff matters I I am having a fun and a chuckle here of you walking by and analyzing uh a battle royale of trainer versus trainer and I I have flashback to when your son Zach and douge spren were in the indoor courts at Wimbledon just having absolute battles and I’m coaching Doug and you’re coaching Zach we spent a million off days you know we would practice I always like to practice on the carpet because I feel like it was a truer balce than what you would get at the practice courts and you wanted to get a little bit of Rhythm and I remember those afternoons where it was like the Zach versus douge Showdown we would be at home and be like they’ be like they kind of look at each other we’re a little bored like it’s it’s only 5 minute walk you guys want to go over and battle and they’re like yeah and then we would each like Brad’s coaching his guy coachy but believe it or not okay you play now you’re in a club and a lot of 3’s and 35s want to be better and they take lessons but the simpleness in an actual match isn’t about how you’re hitting the forehand and how you’re hitting the backand it’s about shot selection it’s about making it another ball and if you’re let’s say a college player and you’re a good move you’re pulling trigger maybe you don’t need to so it it it’s always trying to find a solution what will work best for your game and that’s kind of how I thought when I played and if I was reborn I never heard this word one time which I heard from Andre which didn’t make sense to me because I couldn’t compute it Andre told me early on this word it’s a simple four-letter word that do [ __ ] [ __ ] compute to me you know what it was Peak how am I going to be peeking in seven weeks and like me I couldn’t think well we got Miami you know and he wanted to know like in Washington it was about how am I going to be ready for the open and so like me when I played I was always focused on the week so maybe I’m in your camp and so maybe when I would get to the open I would be tired you because I didn’t understand how to do that because for me every week was the open and I didn’t think about winning a slam or peing like that so once he told me about that it it helped my brain understand okay it’s not about Washington and since even though I want to be playing well there I want to be able to play at my best seven weeks out so that kind of instantly changed my brain from the player to the coach and probably the most important transition that you’ll make from a player to the coach is understanding it doesn’t matter what I did it only matters when I look through your lens or Andre now Cocos that’s what helps make them a better player but a lot of former players looked through their eyes and think about what they would do and then tell the player what their you know how they see it through their own l so you’ve obviously seen kind of an experienced everything through your own eyes Through Your players’s Eyes who do you lean on now if you have a question about are are you calling Andre and saying hey what do you think about this who do you rap with uh about tennis still uh I text you I text Andre a lot um I talked to killer kahill a lot and believe it I still talk to my coach who was 87 years old Tom shavington and my kids throughout their whole life didn’t know his name was Tom they just think his name is coach and I told Coach the only difference was he had to coach people like me I got a chance to maybe coach a little better players and he when you coach a college team it probably makes you a little more even kill because you have to learn to manage different levels oh interesting so so when you coach different players they have different levels um but the beauty of tennis there’s all this technology now which I’m not that crazy to tell you the truth um and the L is that is that just because you don’t know how to work on iPhone uh no I I know how to work it but not amazing and you know I still get but I’m I’m gonna I’ll tell you this okay when you get 300 pages of analytics yeah there’s some great stuff in there but there’s also the I call the Analytics doesn’t take the human factor into it that your player maybe strength is different than the patterns of this one match they’re going to come up so all of a sudden I’m looking and I’m scouting a match the girl is serving and doing everything that maybe tomorrow you know when she’s playing Coco she’s gonna make an adjustment if she doesn’t you’re you’re probably gonna Thumper and I find that if I have 300 pages of analytics don’t they doesn’t your opponent have 300 pages of analytics so you have to be careful if I told you any it’s for beta the guyy serving wide your backend on every break point he does it 93% of the time and I feel like football coaches and a lot of tennis coaches hide behind this data I’d much [ __ ] rather be wrong than say that the data told me it’s going to the back and then what happens on the big point they go to your forehand because they know that your forehands weaker yeah so it’s like for example my mind went to okay so if someone’s trying to figure out where I’m serving and they’re using a small enough sample size and the match that they happen to look at is me playing Feliciano Lopez and all of a sudden they draw down that oh well Andy’s serving wide 85% of the time that’s not actually like my serving pattern it’s just the serving pattern that I had inside of a given matchup and you can’t make that into gravity right you can’t make that just factual day-to-day so let’s say they’ll do it over you know 80 matches 70 of those matches could have been one-sided and and you might have been able to bend fine the matches that that are most important are the matches that where you’re playing at the same level in your peers and what changes can you make I know that one time I looked at datea a long time ago when Andre played Pete in the 99 final of wom he was averaging about 99 miles an hour on his second serve pump up to 120 against Andre immediately yeah and so because of he knew Andre was playing really well there and he was like you know what I’m not gonna let him take some huge shots and then all of a sudden we weren’t quite ready for that and then three four like no the match turn out of dime three all love 40 and he hit two second serve bombs and then you know and then Andre got rattled because he didn’t break but that’s not going to be in the data and great players probably have the ability to change data more than the guy ranked 80 or girl ranked 150 yeah and and the thing that is is true uh amongst all great players is they generally force you to up your risk profile like you’re talking about Pete having to go bigger against Andre I’m not hitting a little bunny kick against Roger because I don’t want to get neutral and so across all of the great players that you’ve ever seen I would guess that the easiest kind of common draw down is that example where he knows Andre is playing he can you know he’s not going to be able to manage his serve right he has to actually create uh something special and and vice versa uh you know I always had to adjust against fed and do things I didn’t want come in on balls I didn’t want try to take a be aggressive on the backand when I didn’t want to uh a little bit more up my my risk profile on a second serve uh I just think the great across time and maybe no one better than Novak kind of forcing you into kind of upping your risk profile and when I sit down and watch matches I wish I I always get told what’s happening right I always get told this person’s missing this shot this person’s missing that shot and I’m going no that person’s missing that shot because they don’t have the choice to play their standard boxed in game right you’re playing someone 40 versus Novak something’s got to give they’re not going to beat him with their kind of stock offering right so the greatness of Novak so bed’s game has all this electricity and he has shots and everything same with Rafa yep F Novak he’s the greatest player ever at the neutral ball it’s not sexy it’s effective and it forces you into making a decision that maybe you don’t want or maybe I’m not willing to play this 20 ball rally and he wins a lot of points by not taking a risk he’s not hitting the ball inside the service box but he’s hitting a good hard quality shot and I I think that’s the biggest change that I made with Andre is Andre would go too big he would risk too much on a first ball and then he would litter up a stat sheet and I’m like you’re not the type of player that should be littering up a stat sheet I said if you play a match and you can hit less than 10 unforced errors nobody’s going to beat you losing yeah unless somebody plays a great match but when you play 40 winners 40 unfor STS you know who was an unbelievable player to litter up a a St sheet he wasn’t a fast guy but that’s probably the best way he could play against good players was Robin soderland oh man he could thump it yeah it’s like he he was most effective by by kind of having Peaks and valleys right and qu another swed like that yeah so when you’re a great ball Striker there’s no reason that you need to litter up a stat sheet at least let the match come to you and see if you need to all of a sudden up what you’re doing because your opponent’s asking you to do that now we haven’t we’ve we’ve kind of touched on Andre I I want to take a quick second obviously Murray’s in that kind of news a little bit because he says he’s going to play through the summer we don’t know what that looks like we don’t know if that’s British summer we don’t know if he’s going to try to make it through the open um talk me through kind of his personality pre- and postmatch we’re talking about kind of dialing things back right like letting your your kind of stock game be effective on the other person not overplaying he’s something that he’s someone that even when you started with him was never guilty of overplaying any shots so what were the adjustments that you had to make with him I’m assuming they were different than than with Andre it’s funny is the first morning I got here uh let’s say so was last Sunday 4:15 in the morning in the gym who do I see Andy Murray and we get into the longest conversation about rackets and all of the technology oh my God he’s crazy about all this um with Andy probably the biggest thing is that I analyzed right away was the type of game that he play first the beauty of it was everybody told me like he’ll never be top 10 he’ll never be this he’s a pusher that’s so stupid from anyone who actually knows tennis though the guy he has such ball control I mean you have that kind of ball control you can’t teach that I disregard that opinion even back when I first saw him yeah so but she at that point probably weigh to Buck 60 yeah and his biggest issue was physicality he literally had 2hour Mark was toast I mean he didn’t have and the type of game that he played you need a full tank you can’t be a counter puncher unless you’re fitter than a fiddle unless you can stay out there and you can wear your opponent down so I did think that was the most important thing and that I felt like probably more than Andy shot and it and and it it’s probably the one shot he probably wishes was a little bit better was the second serve I felt like his second serve was a little bit attackable um and then the other shot that we talked about a lot we Andy is a is a three-letter guy no matter what you tell him he’s GNA say why what’s your research what’s your thought I’m telling you there wasn’t one time I could tell you or I could tell Andre anytime I told Andy something it was why how did you come to this a lot of times I dude I just I see it I think it I don’t you know disseminate like you do and I spend 10 hours on the computer thinking about and I don’t have this dissertation I just say it I didn’t understand why he would jump eight feet inside the court and then bunt the return so I say I don’t get the geometry that you’re GNA take this big risk on position and then not do so because then if you don’t do something now you’re not in great position to where you can defend on the next ball so we did move him way back and then he did that big leak forward which he told me like you know that’s one thing that he changed and he never changed after I changed it because he would kind of be close and the way inside so then he moved back so at least he wasn’t 9et inside the court because it’s like you you’re that FL inside the court you either got to come to net or do something better yeah but he was a unique guy talking about strategy with yeah he would uh we got into a Cadence uh a couple of years ago when he was he’s the only guy I’ve ever seen that this is a this is a true story Producer Mike we’re texting back and forth and again you mentioned the rackets he was on one about the rackets two and a half three years ago right and he would text he had me and Bob Bryan on a text and he was like what do you think more space I’m like I I don’t know he rented out a court uh and kept the shot spot live and active so that when he was using different rackets it wasn’t based on feelings like Brad’s talking about it was based on an entire readout shot profile he rented out a court with shot spot technology after he had lost in Cincinnati one year and then sends us all the readouts I’m like bro I don’t I don’t know like I I like I your math is great I have no idea I I would have to see how the ball was coming off or feel it like I I don’t I don’t know what this is a at at the LTA he has a radar gun he just play tested every single ret so much and he says that he could you know that um all the different head rackets somewhere more power he couldn’t get any more power on any racket on any different type looser tighter I said maybe it has something to do with your arm maybe you’ve got a little toit but he’s still searching I know for any smidge that can make him better and that the reason why he’s probably still going because in the back of his mind that if he finds something it will all a sudden give him that pixie dust and he’s gonna you know he’s been holding out the whole time because he wants to make a quarter of a slam and feel those kind of uh emotions again and I I hope he has that moment I hope he gets the send off that he’s he he he wants because he’s he he’s deserved it and his curiosity is is amazing I’m sure it was probably annoying for you as a coach sometimes but I I respect someone who is so uh committed to process right that is that is a non-negotiable with someone’s great is respecting the process not trying to Short change the process some of us can go overboard uh sometimes but um it is a non-negotiable especially uh in an individual sport um something else I want to get to uh before we let you go is you know for most of the tennis world right all of a sudden we’re scrolling on Twitter and you and I text a little bit more so I I normally have a little bit more of a of an inw um that I that I would never kind of talk about publicly but to most of the tennis world all of a sudden we’re scrolling through last summer uh we see Washington and everyone goes oh [ __ ] Brad’s on court with Coco like I’m assuming that didn’t happen that morning walk us through the process of when you started kind of thinking about this uh where your interest level was if you were committed to getting back out on the road kind of walk us through what led to that moment where all of a sudden the rest of us are going oh [ __ ] look what happened um a couple years ago unfortunately it it crushes me uh Espin we lost this tournament Miami Canada ciny year in Championship we lost a lot of the days that we did and still bums me out we’re not we’re not following this match and that’s whole another story so that that kind of led me to I have a lot more time and to be honest with you I I have one coaching regret that I’ve been in the final weekend as a coach numerous times at wiland and never come away with winning that tournament so I was think you know what yeah was there my bad bro I was six times as a coach in the semis and didn’t get past you know a couple of finals I’m still you know thinking about the 2004 final two rain delays so yeah I I I don’t I don’t know what you’re talking about the five all two Le cours in the second set I don’t want I don’t want to leave this interview depressed let’s move on okay so okay um and I started thinking that it was probably time that that I’d like to get back into the mix but I wanted to get back into the mix with somebody that potentially could be in the final weekend yeah and somebody that was young enough that I could help get to that level and during that tournament I actually got you know first early in the tournament that there was you mean wiim than last year wimbl in 2023 okay there was a guy player that that I got some interest from from his agent that happened to text me and then after coko Lost first round uh to kenon I happen to be in the green room talking to Mary Joe for whose husband represents Coco I started tell teammate she’s on the roster so I started telling her the few things that I saw that could quickly change Coo’s course of where she was going so which led to Saturday morning when I was getting ready to go to the courts I got a text from alandro who is Coco’s agent meeting yep yeah would would I take a meeting coko and the family about some of the things that I saw and I said sure so it took a meeting we had a that that morning over at um at a house in the village that um late that morning um and we spoke for about an out and you know Tony said he was looking in through the window and he was like man see like a 62 year old guy and seeing you know a couple of them looking on their phone he didn’t think he was going very well so and as it turned out when the meeting was done I said that my schedule was open for the summer of 2023 other than the quales at the US Open Us open so I had een weeks to go so literally two weeks goes by I don’t hear nothing actually had told Kim that’s not that’s not normally that’s not normally a good sign no no and that’s exactly what I say and then the day before I got a call from the tournament of Washington would I like to do something you know wa wait so unrelated to Coco Washington had you come in and do like an appearance come in and do a week for the tournament I did clinics with Luke and I did a bunch of players where I was taking them into this you’re about to tell me this was all a coincidence so I’m so got to Washington the next day yeah the next day literally so this was like Wednesday I’m going to Washington Saturday okay get the call from alesandro he says do you want to come down tomorrow to Atlanta Go Go’s playing this exhibition in Atlanta do you want to do a two day trial see how it goes or maybe she’s going to go back to Del Reay and we could do two day you know figure something out I said well and I said I think cck’s playing Washington I’m now going to Washington like Friday night you want to do the two-day trial there and then he texted me back and he was like sure and I said well because I’ve already got a ticket I’ve got the hotel I’ve got things covered so one one’s very public and one isn’t yeah that that was probably I didn’t think about that that was probably like an unforced error by me but honestly I was really just thinking about some of the things that saw just like you how my life come full circle you know that like you’re my age now and you were Coco’s age you know in 2003 and I saw a couple little things that I felt like were G to make a huge difference and the two-day trial so we had two good days of practice Saturday and Sunday which led to like okay let’s let’s do the tournament and I remember Mary Joe calling me Tuesday afternoon new and I’m staying at this place literally it’s called the salamoner hotel you R of this place I haven’t but I feel like I’m about to wait it’s prob be the only Ritz Carlton I think that’s ever changed to the salamander hotel in DC and iown no it’s I don’t know it’s over by all the government buildings okay I I I’m not in that part of the neighborhood of Washington ever before that’s a noo for me that’s a that’s a complete noo for me and I just written down on the piece of paper the date of the US Open final yeah I don’t know why cuz I just happened to look at it I wrote down the day of it and right when I did that Mary Joe Fernandez called me and she wanted to know how things were going I said I think things are going really well she plays her first match tomorrow and I think she’s going to win the US Open on September you know on the date that I wrote down September 9th and then she got you know you’re getting so far of yourself why are you thinking that don’t say that and I and I I probably like shouldn’t have but it was just I literally just wrote it down I just wanted to see what it looked like on the piece of paper that date and you know sometimes you can hope but it’s like sometimes you can catch frightening in a bottle like you had to Great summer uh of 2003 and I felt like if You’ asked me at Indianapolis if it was going to happen I kind of felt like it was happening I didn’t want to jump out of that damn plane that you made me jump out of after Cincinnati was but um I felt like a lot of the things that happened to her was very eerily similar to you it wasn’t about making a big change in something it was about how to manage your game and to maximize the things that you did better well listen I I couldn’t have been happier uh with your successes um I I got to tell you one of my favorite uh moments of of of last year was uh you know we had been talking and I text and we you know we you’ll be calling a match and I’m just kind of bullshitting and I’m nerding out and you know what do you think here what do you think there and it’s become really like a really fun Cadence uh between us um but watching Coco’s run and now all of a sudden I liked Everyone likes Coco everyone I mean she just handles herself great so I generally like Coco and then all of a sudden you start working with her and I feel like I have more of a vested interest just because I want to see the changes I want to see how your mind kind of translates to her game and then all of a sudden you start ripping off winds again I’m going here it goes we got the we got the [ __ ] downhill snowball going again I know where this leads I know where it’s going and so fast forward she wins the US Open and I’m like I I was like literally emotional I haven’t been that emotional watching a tennis match uh in a very long time and then I text you congrats and I remember one of my favorite kind of 45 minute uh moments uh was you you said hey you know what this is just crazy I’m I’m kind of spinning I’m I’m really happy we’re going to do you know the party celebration here he go come you know early come before everyone gets here and let’s just have a couple drinks and even that moment and and kind of thinking through it and then kind of rolling back the clock and then all of a sudden you know your daughter walks in I we talk about babysitting her when I’m three years old and now she’s like a gr I mean it’s just it was just a nice and I got to sit back you know against a wall I didn’t know Coco well at that point or any and just to sit back and kind of watch it from uh a 30,000 foot view I felt like I was looking backwards a little bit except you two uh have a lot more Runway hopefully I think you were the perfect guy uh for that job at that moment um as you’re looking forward what are you currently kind of working on and and and where do you think uh the start of the year has been for Coco um well it you know what’s interesting when you’re in that moment like when I was you I was hurt you you don’t really understand what’s going on because you’re so in the moment until it’s over um this year um you know she was just like I’m gonna say she was close three minutes from winning the yazio in my opinion it you know 6530 love in that first set after a slow start has she won that first set I think she wins six and two zabala picked up her game dramatically and then she had another window at 34 uh love 30 the second so sometimes in matches that’s all it is is a small window and then then we didn’t have a great trip um over in U Doha Dubai I think maybe she rushed to playing there that they have these two big tournaments out of nowhere but I think more importantly at any age and especially when you’re young it’s understanding about what the goals are to get better because it it’s too easy to say I want to win X Y and Z because that it you know everybody does but there’s parts of her game that she definitely needs to work with I’ve never got so many Texas in my life once I started coaching her that instantly everything is about fix your for fix your grip fix your forehand you you have to and it’s like I I think sometimes people think and even Club players think it’s so easy to just fix something like and I and my first thought is I don’t know what you’re like I said what happens if you fix it and it doesn’t get better what happens if you make a change and it doesn’t get better and then you when you change a grip you have to completely change an arc of a swing what does that do to the arm so there’s there’s you know more factors in in making a change and probably more than anything mentally you know it’s not as easy these people think because they think you’re a pro it’s like boom you can do that not everybody’s like rasa that can make changes like all the time Andre was another one that liked to Tinker all the time you know but not all players are like that were you like that could you make changes easy I I could try them I wasn’t against it and I could tell you pretty quickly whether it was going to work or whether whether it wasn’t I wasn’t I wasn’t scared to try anything I mean I I felt like my entire career I was kind of trying to problem solve for these other world talents and so you know yeah I was desperate at times I would [ __ ] try anything to to try to get a different result but the the as you’re talking through that it’s weird because it almost draws a direct line to where we started this conversation where you become so technically obsessed and not everything is about swing especially and this is from where I sit and I kind of agree with you adjustments not changes right if Coco fixes or or changes a grip she relies on her legs like her her her kind of plan B is set very similar to Rafa where like I might not be playing well but I can serve and I can play D and I’m going to make even you know when if I’m not playing great your life’s going to be miserable for two hours even if you beat me right I’m going to be a massive pain in the ass so all of a sudden she changes her grip that changes the Cadence of steps into the ball that changes ball flight when she’s on the run that changes every single thing uh maybe Court positioning is different it’s not just one fix there’s a waterfall effect off of any major change that you make and is that tradeoff worth that waterfall effect maybe an adjustment here and there like we we worked on a serve and it was like couple simple little things it wasn’t Heaven and Earth and she seemed to get it pretty quickly um but yeah I mean listen it it changes 10 other things you change a grip that changes okay maybe uh I like used to kind of play it offline and now all of a sudden this grip dictates that I pull it this way it changes kind of all of those instinctive reps that you’ve built up over the course of 20 years it’s more than just a grip in my mind do you know if you ask like a really good 14year old like a Todd Junior if you win 64 75 64 64 they think you have to win way more points it’s amazing that like in a 64 64 match 1% yeah and so and and it’s a lot of times it’s the key points some players and at some point you do need to make a change when you’re stuck or you’re going backwards and in theory if you don’t improve a little bit Andy you are going backwards because there’s new 17 18 year olds but sometimes you can force change and change you know can be good just like sometimes the coach can be lucky it’s not what he said it just happened to be a new voice happened to be at the right place and the right time you know so there is a little bit of luck Factor but I I’m totally honest and that there’s no way I can take a 500 player and take him to five in the world you might do the greatest coaching job ever to take a 500 player that has a max of 350 and take him to 150 but you’re not going to be recognized for doing that big because you’re not you’re going to be recognized for taking somebody that you know taking him that but honest to God you whether not it’s Andre or anybody if you’re coaching on they have to have these god-given skills that help them otherwise I’d just give you a magic pill and honestly at my age now I take the losses so hard I mean it it crushes me I always feel like I did something wrong I did something wrong I still to this day have huge guilt about those two [ __ ] random days that fed made some changes in that match that you know that maybe I didn’t equate for it because that’s how much I care I really care that much and it guts me I think as you get older you forget the wins and for some reason I I wish I could change myself but I I remember the losses I’ll still never forget how about this one do you remember this one in Basel I don’t know why we went to Basel fed’s Hometown you’re getting ready to go play a match they call the match and for some reason you you put on your shoes and you have two left shoes Oh I thought it was I had had running shoes but maybe I’m just yeah yeah may maybe I had to go and play like the first three games in running shoes I think I don’t think it was two left shoes I think it was like I had these like spongy like the shoes you’re wearing right now I’m like dude and it was like who ran did you who ran back to the hotel was it I I had to get back to the hotel and literally we we hit a biker almost on the way back and got back and Lally gave you the shoes in the middle of the match and you play yeah I I think you said something along the lines of oh [ __ ] he don’t run much try to hold serve yeah don’t Sprint an ankle I’ll be back in like 20 minutes take every take every bit of clock in between points get a Time violation little things that you you just think about you know that never go away and I I actually think that like the little things in coaching sometimes you know those are great memories yeah and a and each player that you coach you got to remember that they are wired differently you know and you can’t wire them to a certain way like you you know one of the things that made you great if you said red you know then then it’s black if you say she’s hot she’s not you kind of like the the fuel of the fire you know Metallica song that was that’s what made you a good argument raged you to play better some people like Andy deep discussion you know and I I found that all players you know want to be great but they’re just different on how they process what’s best for them yeah um I I one I have to thank you uh for your time today I know our listeners are going to absolutely love this um another thing that people know you as the coach the player the guy wearing the questionable hats uh on the sidelines um by the way by the way [ __ ] like you you make me give up a visor right and you just and then you’ve created this whole story about like grease on shoulder whatever like and then you go wear the the [ __ ] hats you wear now and you’re making fun of my visor that is hypocrisy like I’ve never heard I was fine with the criticism of the visor before you started wearing all those stupid [ __ ] hats I got the bucket hats I got the Panama hats the Panama Hat is like bro that come on when you’re bald when you’re bald don’t tell me about being bald I’m [ __ ] bald like what what are you talking about yeah but I burn easy so you need shade it’s a terrible and you know what and then you know what’s a bad move for a coach no you got to have a coach how you got to have a hat you got to have Shades you got to look cool it’s very important to look cool if you look cool you coach better and you you got to have a hip look so we got you from the visor the trucker hat you then you had better physical appearance well that’s fine I listen I’m owning my [ __ ] I’m just telling you you got to own some of your some of your choices um one of the things that people don’t see when before we got sidetracked about your dumb Panama hats um one of the people one of the things that people don’t see and I want to give you credit for whether it was Zach When We Were Young and he was you know a teenager your girl Zoe and jwes and Kim you have your kids have turned out 10 out of 10 like you have done an amazing job uh as a father you’re it’s just I was texting with let me stop you then let me stop you there Kim Gilbert gets all the credit oh I understand that fully but you you were still present like I I I get I get who’s doing the heavy lifting I understand I you know I couldn’t say enough nice things about Kim but I than God they got her good-look jeans hopefully like the same for your kids are going to get a little more of your M’s jeans I hope so too that was the that was the plan uh all you you can’t you can’t beat good planning um something else that I I I have regret about and I I I don’t know that I’ve spoken about it publicly I regret my part in us not having more time together I wish we would have I think there was a lot of uh unfinished business um not to go we’ve talked about it privately since uh but I wish that we would have had more time and I regret that but I appreciate you I think tennis is is all you want is personalities that’s what you remember when we look back uh after all these years and you’ve certainly been uh an outsized personality and outsized personality is fun for a moment in time but it doesn’t have the staying power that you’ve had without quality behind it and so congratulations on your career I can’t wait to see uh what Happ you I’m going to do I’m just going to give you a hug I’m going to give you a hug to screen because you know what as much as the wins and you know the losses hurt I felt like you know we a th% agree with you we had more time yeah and I never you know there’s been a bunch of Billy Martin Yankee situations like with coaches that been back lend been mared five times I never went back to a player after I stopped wish I went back to you because I felt like we had unfinished business especially maybe maybe for the next maybe for the next [Music] [Music] life

Excerpt from  @ServedPodcast  originally released 2.27.24

Brad Gilbert, Coco Gauff’s coach, talks with Andy Roddick about coaching Andre Agassi, his approach to coaching, his experiences with Andy Murray and Coco Gauff, and rehashes some old stories from his time with Andy Roddick.

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