Craig Mackail-Smith tells us EVERYTHING about his three spells at Peterborough United

Craig Mackail-Smith tells us EVERYTHING about his three spells at Peterborough United

Hello all welcome to Up the Poshcast a podcast 
made by the fans for the fans grab yourself a   drink put your feet up and listen in and by 
the way there could be some strong language.   Hello everybody and welcome to a very very special 
episode of Up the Poshcast, Harry Lodz and myself   have just sat down with Craig Mackail-Smith 
and recorded a feature length episode talking   through his entire Peterborough United career 
for our generation three 30 something year old   fans Mackail-Smith is one of the iconic figures 
of what was the iconic Posh teams really of my   lifetime it was the best time support in Posh the 
most successful time support in Posh and in this   episode we get some insight into Craig’s stories 
over the years some stories you probably haven’t   heard before hopefully we really hope you you 
enjoy the episode so sit back relax and we’ve   got you covered for the next hour or so. Hi Craig 
how’s things good evening i’m very well very well   how you guys doing yeah good thank you so we just 
wanted to talk basically your entire Peterborough   United career which is three stints so quite a lot 
to talk about the first question we wanted to ask   is basically when you first arrived it was a it 
was a relatively big step in your career wasn’t   it from from non-league to go to League 2 but also 
it was quite a big step for Darren Ferguson at the   time because he’s only been in charge for a very 
short period of time so I’d love to get your brief   thoughts on what f what was your first impressions 
of Darren Ferguson and Darren Ferguson football so   obviously when I first came in I was signed under 
Keith Alexander um so I kind of met Keith and he   introduced me to all the the Peterborough stuff um 
and the training ground and all of that kind of uh   bits and pieces and then um I kind of went away 
and a little time later I came back but Keith had   been had been let go and then Darren had come in 
so I’d met Darren and had a chat with with Darren   and obviously he was young he’s kind of literally 
just out of his own playing career kind of trying   to forge his way obviously for for the club it was 
a very bold step to to take a a risk on someone   who’ just come out of their out of their playing 
career um but obviously under Fergie you could see   like he liked to play uh attacking football it was 
it was always very much just get it forward um and   just and try and create with the creative players 
we had and obviously me being a center forward who   doesn’t really defend and that was that was great 
to hear yeah and you hit the ground running right   what eight goals in your first 13 games that half 
season did you Did you surprise yourself with how   quickly you adapted to it yeah I did u obviously 
I came from Dagenham and I was doing really well   at Dagum i think I had 14 goals in 28 games um and 
obviously it was it was a step up so it was just   kind of I thought that kind of part of the season 
just to get adjusted to it understand what it’s   like like what the differences are but obviously 
yeah it just it just it just flowed i just   everything I was hitting at that moment in time 
was going in um I think I was kind of taking the   form I had maybe from Dagenham and trying to take 
it into that maybe I had a little bit of naivity   at the same time with just kind of just maybe just 
going at it um and there to finish with that many   goals in in that that space of time it was it was 
amazing and it kind of g me a great boost to kind   of like as a center forward you want to come in 
and and score as quick as you can so to have done   that and in that amount of games it was it kind 
of gave me real confidence for the next season craig when you joined I think that January 
transfer window we we seem to have signed   loads and loads of players how was it coming into 
a dressing room where sort of everyone was brand   new and like trying to settle together um it 
was exciting obviously Aaron I’d seen Aaron had   signed early early on and then Boyd had signed 
and these are guys that I’d played against in   in the conference i and and I played in England 
C with them as well i I knew what these guys were   like and how good they were so it was obviously 
it was really exciting coming in and seeing all   these young lads like really talented players 
kind of being brought together and obviously   there was still some experienced heads in the 
team um at that moment in time when I came in   um but it was it was like say the young manager 
coming in in Fergie they were bringing young   hungry exciting players so it was kind of a 
a real exciting time to be part of the club   it was basically that season was a was a bit 
of a weird one wasn’t it because you had sort   of the old guard and then the the new mechan 
signings that we like to we would call them and   then it was the season after where things just 
took off basically and we were unstoppable for   two years basically but that summer I think we 
signed Micah Hyde Chris Westwood and Dean Keys   could you tell you know when they came in did 
the levels like just instantly go up and were   you instantly thinking well promotions are on the 
cards this season or did you did you kind of think   well I don’t know where we’re going to end up um 
I think we believed we could obviously they were   three fantastic signings we we were again a young 
hungry bunch of players who had relatively most   of us had no experience within the leagues and 
then you you’re bringing say Michael High Chris   Westwood and Dean Keates have all played at the 
highest level won things so it was it was great   to have experience in the dressing room um to 
bounce off to kind of get an understanding what   it’s going to be like it was really exciting as 
I said to see us all young lads coming together   but I think having those three kind of the kind of 
spine of the team kind of helped us gel even more   and probably give us a bit of a a grounding and 
an understanding of what the division was going   to be like and probably not to get too carried 
away when it was it was going well and and not   too disappointed when it when it wasn’t going 
right at that time I remember being a young   fan myself there was an emerging rivalry from a 
fans perspective with MK Dons i don’t know if you   did you guys feel that at all like they’re not a 
historic rival obviously being as young a club as   they were but any extra motivation for those games 
from your perspective yeah I think it just became   a rival didn’t it i think that during that season 
there were good games we were obviously both kind   of I think they had fairly young squad as well 
they were pushing to to get out of the division   obviously it’s localish if you can can say that um 
and I say we both got promoted that season so then   obviously we took that rivalry into the into the 
following season as well so I think you looked it   as a rivalry because Cambridge wasn’t around to to 
be to to have those games northampton not was not   around to have those games so kind of we created 
that rivalry because we needed one needed one   i remember I remember hating them for when they 
came in i absolut Matteo was in charge at the   time weren’t he and I think um he came here with 
the most defensive football ever i remember being   absolutely fuming we were all like Harry Lods and 
I were all like 16 at the time so those results   really affected us back then um I wanted to ask 
about Heraford as well because that’s where the   season obviously culminated what do you remember 
about that game i don’t remember it being a   classic to be honest i remember running on the 
pitch at the end but it was it wasn’t the best   game if I remember rightly and then what was the 
night out after it is there any stories you can   tell us what 15 years on disclose um so so the the 
game itself was it wasn’t a great game you said it   was cold it was wet um I think there obviously 
there was excitement within our dressing room   knowing what we could achieve within within the 
game um so that there was maybe a little bit of   pressure but a lot of excitement you say we we’ve 
spent a whole season kind of young hungry lads on   the kind of the verge of completing something that 
everyone expected maybe expected of us so I think   Key scored a diving header which is very like 
very very rare um I think from a Chris Whelpdale   cross so it was it it was just kind of apt that he 
scored a winner because he was a fantastic player   for us and I say like led us through through that 
season um and it was just an amazing experience to   kind of say not not take your ch well take your 
chance we took our chance as a team we we we we   built ourselves as a team um and all that hard 
work that we put in and probably say pressure from   outside saying that we should win the league or we 
should get promoted because of the team we had it   was nice to kind of finish that that game and that 
moment being promoted um stories honestly I can’t   remember that far back like I know we we’d go out 
and I think it used to be Tohos and Edwards and   places like that we we’d spend our time and and 
like I’m not a big drinker but on the on the bus   back all the boys were having a beer I know I’ve 
got some photos upstairs like old school taking it   on the clicky camera and stuff like that so no it 
was amazing to say like to to to all come together   um and have that little bit bit of pressure and 
expectation to deliver I think was was was amazing   um that season going into the following season the 
2008 2009 season what were the expectations on on   you guys going into it because obviously there 
were some real big teams in there like Leads and   Leicester would was there any expectation at all 
that we were going to be fighting for promotion   or or finish in the top two which obviously we 
ended up doing yeah i I think there was massive   belief like I think we realized like we were we 
were still very young like to to do that i came   in I was 23 in the season i was 20 24 i think 
Aaron was 24 boyd was 22 you had like Charlie   Lee you had like real we still was a really young 
squad so we still we really firmly believe that   we could get backto-back promotions like we want 
to take the the the league by storm and kind of   utilize what we’re good at um and it didn’t really 
the first game anyway didn’t go quite to pound we   lost I think we lost to South End in the first 
game of the season and then I think we were all   looking at each other going might be a little 
bit harder than we thought but I think once we   got into the swing of things and we I think we 
might have played late in Norian at home and we   beat them and then we beat someone else and we 
started to get on a real good run i think there   was them real belief and then obviously you go to 
play I think you say it’s probably like Leicester   I think was in the division at that time i 
think leadeds were in there and we got some   really massive results against these teams and you 
you start to kind of look at and go like we’re we   we’re good enough like we we we believe we can do 
this um and obviously the you just keep picking   up momentum and and I think that the the kind of 
the belief in the dressing room was so high it was   like every game we went into we didn’t think we 
were going to lose and and as you see like some   of the games we could be three-0 down at Half 
time and come out and win 5-3 it was just there   was just a a drive that like no one could beat 
us and I think that kind of pushed us all the   way to to achieve that back-to-back promotion 
you mentioned 5-3 as a score line there Craig   i remember a 5-4 against Bristol Rovers where I 
still think back and I still think that’s one of   the greatest Peterborough performances I’ve seen 
was your strike display that day do you class   that that game as like your best performance in 
a Peterborough shirt or is there another one that   you you would have ahead of that oh that’s that’s 
a really good I think that’s it’s definitely up   there um wow i think I had I put a few good ones 
in when I in the second time we were in League One   i think I scored like it’s 35 goals that season 
i think probably stepping into League One and and   scoring a hatch in League One and obviously it was 
on TV at the same time so there was a lot of kind   of things that came from it obviously Aaron went 
off injured as well during that game um I think   I I really did enjoy it and I think I say from 
Fergie’s the way Fergie used to love to set up we   were attacking team we were always going to score 
goals and but we were always going to concede them   and we knew that it was always just a case of 
can we outscore them um and I think lots of   that especially that season going up back to back 
that we we played a lot of games where we were we   were kind of we had that belief and that that kind 
of grind to to make sure we we’d um win the games   for you personally because you went in 
that season to I think it was 23 goals that   uh 0809 season i think I was doubling or nearly 
doubling from the League 2 season before your   tally just were you actively thinking about 
changing your game improving your game in in   like were you knowing what to build on what to 
let go of in terms of what you were doing what   were you Was there a specific method that you went 
through to increase your goal tally for that or or   did it just naturally fall into place um I was 
I’m always a person like the 1% so I’d always   work on and look at what I need to do and and how 
I need to get better and work and work on that   so obviously I think I was I had a few injuries 
at the beginning season of League two um as you   said I think I think I think I finished the whole 
season including cup i think I got 19 which was   like okay considering that say I missed a early 
part and then the second season obviously you go   into league one it’s you’re kind of looking 
at it to see what the defenders are like how   much different is kind of what what obviously the 
expectations everyone’s putting on you and I say   the first game we played south end I didn’t score 
and it was it’s it was quite a tough game really   um and then I think after that I scored against 
late and I scored in a couple other games then   there was that real belief that I could I could 
score at this Um and I think that drove me forward   and as I said I always practiced that i know I 
was a big one that missed loads of one-on- ones   because of my pace i got in so many times and 
I could probably have 100 more goals if I could   actually finish at that moment at that point but I 
I went away and I worked on it and I and I worked   on my pace i worked on my strength i worked on how 
I thought about the game because I obviously as   you go up the levels you have to increase that 
and my aim was kind of ultimately was to try   and get to the Premier League so I had to keep 
improving it every season to to to give myself   that possibility did you actually notice much of 
a difference in quality when you when you went up   because like like Harry said I think you nearly 
doubled the amount of goals that you got so were   the defenders better did you notice any difference 
or did it just feel like playing League Two again   um you they they were a bit smarter they were a 
bit stronger a bit quicker you played against a   lot more experienced players at at that level but 
I think for me it was like I was starting to grow   into myself like at Dagenham I that’s where I 
kind of first started doing like my strength   conditioning and a bit more focusing on my game 
and then as I kind of went into to to PE for the   first season again I was like a little bit injured 
um still doing the bits and pieces I need to work   on and I think as I was getting older I was I was 
getting stronger and I was getting quicker and I   was kind of fine-tuning what I what I actually 
needed to do for me like what worked for me so   it’s kind of like I was always investigating what 
what could I could do better so then I think when   I got into League One I just think that it was 
all kind of a culmination of it coming together it   started to kind of I could feel it like building 
my finishing was better my hold up play was better   um again playing against better players but 
I think that made me a better version of me i want to talk about your relationship with uh 
Aaron McClean because I don’t think we’ve seen   a better strike partnership at Peterborough 
uh since you two or probably even before you   two to be honest what was it that was so good 
about your relationship that meant you scored   so many goals between you um I think we wanted 
the best for each other i think like it was a   a case of well there’s two things actually we 
wanted the best for each other so like if he   was in a position to score and and it was easy 
for him to tap in I would have played it to him   and and vice versa it wasn’t about him having a 
competition maybe a bit of a a jokey competition   to see who scores more but it was about each 
other it was about helping each other become   the best we could possibly be score as many goals 
as we we both could and help the team progress so   I think that was one massive part of it and the 
second obviously Darren came in and said that we   couldn’t play together so we believed we could 
obviously we we’re pretty similar in stature   um he was more of a stocky like hold up player i 
was more off the shoulder so we believed we had   the ability to to kind of mesh our abilities 
together and and create something special and   and as I said I think kind of loving being around 
each other on and off the pitch I think drove us   on the pitch and allowed us to score more goals do 
you think Fergie genuinely believed you couldn’t   play together or do you think he was doing that 
as like a motivational tactic to to make you you   know reverse psychology i don’t know may maybe 
maybe he was like that would be a really good   question to ask him like again I think it was 
just it it fueled us it was like we because if   he’d have come in and brought another striker in 
it might have been him Aaron playing on me playing   so it was like we we had such a kind of great 
friendship that we built straight away there was   like we don’t want anyone else to come in and play 
like we want to play together and we want to help   each other and we want to take this club forward 
and we both want to take our careers forward so   um yeah I say you’d have to ask Fergie whether 
he was he was re reverse psychology both of us you know as we kind of wrap up on the 0809 
season just any particular games that stood   out for you or and also actually specifically 
on I suppose Leicester and Leeds because they   were a little bit of an I think in themselves an 
example of what it was going to be like in the   Championship obviously Leicester went up with 
us and we beat them two-0il at London Road um   so I’m guessing you had some confidence but 
what was it what was it like playing them uh   we already thinking about what it would be like 
in that following 09 10 year playing teams like   that uh not really i think obviously we kind 
of tried to take everything as it as it came   and obviously lead we everyone knows the history 
leads and uh Leicester and and the massive there   was there obviously huge clubs within that 
division at that time so when we played them   there was always a lot of respect but also that 
a real desire and belief that that like just it   doesn’t matter who they were they could be say 
the leads or leicster we we’d still go and give   him a good game it wouldn’t be kind of too much 
respect so and I think that showed you beat say   we beat Leads at home we beat Leicester at home um 
and obviously we got promoted alongside Leicester   so don’t think we showed him any respect that 
season and obviously we we knew going into the   following season Leicester would stronger because 
they would obviously bring bring in big players um   and obviously with then going into that division 
you always knew there’s it was going to be tough   because most majority of them players have have 
played like at the highest level so it was always   going to be a another step to try and take you say 
there that you knew it was going to be tough but I   remember at the time we were being tipped to like 
reach the playoffs in the championship i still   remember 442’s predictions and and everything 
coming out and I remember thinking like I think   I was at school at the time and I remember telling 
everyone “Oh we’re going to be Premier League next   season and it felt like we had so much momentum 
and then it all just went horribly wrong really   that for that year.” But what was the belief like 
in the squad going into that season did you I have   no idea where you guys thought you’d end up did 
you think it was because you don’t really known   success at posh so were you like top six is 
on here or was it we just need to stabilize i   think it was take it as it comes i think like 
we we we done fantastic to go from league two   into league one and I think you you realize the 
jump between league one and the champion into   the championship is is massive and the size 
of the clubs there a lot of them have been in   the Premier League as I said a lot of the players 
have played Premier League football international   football so we kind of knew it was going to be 
a bit more of a a test um than than the last two   seasons but we still we still had belief that 
we could we could go go places um and we were   just very unfortunate i think during that first 
kind of early part of the season we um I think   we scored a goal against QPR which got chokeked 
off which would have won us the game i think we   scored a couple of goals against West Brom that 
got choked off which would have won us the game   so there’s like there’s momentum shifters there 
because you you win those games that gives you   more confidence and you start kind of pushing 
forward and for us unfortunately it’s like it   kind of slightly kill the momentum um and again 
it’s when you get to the championship the games   are are grueling like like I’m not kind of saying 
league one’s not tough but you get to that level   and you’re you’re you have to be on it not for 
90 minutes you’re playing against better players   you’ve got to be sharper you get less chances so 
there was a lot that we learned in in that early   part of the season but unfortunately we just we 
just didn’t have enough throughout that season how   did the dressing room change like at the beginning 
of that season like as soon as you started getting   the bad results because obviously as a group you 
were you’ve only really enjoyed success together   you’ve never really gone through a period of bad 
results in such a way and I remember the sort of   leaders in the dressing room i think Micah Hyde 
left the previous season dean Keats had left a few   months into that season how how did the dressing 
room sort of cope and and what was like Fergie’s   impact on the negative results how how was his 
behavior sort of changing um I still think we were   positive because I said I don’t think there was a 
time when we got outplayed or we got battered and   say there there’s certain results that on another 
day they go the other way and and you you’re   looking at a different position in the division 
so I still feel like we believed we could compete   at that level um I think it’s just sometimes the 
results culminate and sometimes you kind of you   start looking for results and that’s what kind of 
we were doing we we were probably not going into   games with that confidence it was more kind of 
like all like this is a bit more tougher like we   like we’re not getting the chances we were getting 
it’s not as easy and say I think the results kind   of started to to show that and Fergie Fergie 
was good and he and he keep tried to keep us   kind of pushing forward i don’t think we had as 
much experience in that dress room at that time   i think maybe we could have done with maybe some 
more at Championship experience in that in that   dressing room because we were all still relatively 
young as I say we’re only like two years in so I   think again I was 25 26 um we were still a very 
young team and we had experience in league two   and league one but again it’s the temperature is a 
different beast and you’re going to need sometimes   two or three older heads to just guide you when 
the when the going gets tough at that level so   maybe that was something we could have we could 
have done better with um but yeah it was it wasn’t   I say it wasn’t like a dressing room it was like 
having a go at each other we still all wanted the   best for each other we still trying our best just 
we couldn’t seem to get the results at the time i guess I I’ll ask about the that period where we 
had Aaron McClean basically saying that he wanted   to go Fergie goes Mark Cooper comes in you know 
general thoughts about that period i mean did you   did you sense that Fergie was going to go and 
uh what what was it like at that time having a   new manager come in for the I know you were signed 
by Keith Alexander but for the first time in your   Peterborough career having having someone new in 
the door yeah it was difficult it was obviously   with Aaron going like don’t ever want to stop in 
a players way like he he had a great opportunity   to go to to a bigger club um obviously for us we 
we’d love to him to stay because he was he was   like he’s a goal scorer and someone who we felt 
obviously would help us but again like he done   brilliantly that to the previous two seasons and 
his opportunity opportunity came um that Darren   leaving didn’t never never really saw it coming 
like he we all had the confidence in him we all   believed in him again he was the the guy that had 
brought us all in and like we all trusted his his   judgment and his and his tactics and everything 
like that um I think obviously it’s just part   and parcel of the football like if your results 
aren’t going well something has to give and more   often not it’s not it’s not the players it’s the 
manager um so unfortunately he he went and we were   all kind of gutted really cuz we all still felt 
there was a way out we all still felt there was we   could still perform and and find the performances 
that we needed to to to do to keep pushing us out   and kind of get get us where we wanted to be 
um so as you said that next period was really   chaotic you had I think was it Mark Cooper who 
came in in next um and obviously he he came from   like lower leagues and it was I think it was a big 
big step for him to to to take and obviously the   players that we maybe invested in at that time 
were probably not the players that we needed to   invest in um so there was a lot of kind of ins and 
outs and it just became kind of very confusing did   like new style new players um and I think that 
kind of showed a little bit on the pitch just   wrapping back around to when Fergie went quickly 
did you got because I think it was quite abrupt i   think we all know the story now that basically him 
and Darren just had a fallout after Newcastle away   did he ever get back in contact with you or did he 
get a chance to say bye before he went basically   or was it just gone gone he was gone that was 
it and obviously we didn’t I don’t think we   found out until it was mentioned on Sky um so 
we didn’t know and then he obviously he’d gone   and then we obviously waiting to hear what was 
going on and then obviously Mark Cooper came in   so say we didn’t really see that happening um it 
was it was obviously it was kind of like it took   us by surprise and because we said we believed we 
were going to get out of that um but again as I   said football and results are part of the business 
and if you’re not doing it it’s it’s going these   things are going to happen so yeah it was it was 
disappointing because it but I say we had to move   on fast yeah I’m sure what what happened though 
when it popped up on Sky and like you saw Fergie   going was it just Were you all texting each other 
or Yeah yeah we just couldn’t believe it like just   like obviously I think we had the Newcastle game 
and then it was just Yeah it was just just kind of   a bit of a shock really um and then it’s kind 
of like as soon as that happens it’s like who   who’s coming in then who’s who’s who’s the next 
manager like that’s kind of the the ultimate thing   is like what you’re you’re focusing on is who’s 
coming in how like what they’re going to play   obviously we the players at that moment in time 
hadn’t performed to how they should have done so   so new players are going to come in like is your 
position safe so there’s a lot that kind of goes   through your mind as soon as the the manager kind 
of leaves so there was yeah there was a lot of   um waiting and and seeing what happens next one of 
the uh most iconic things from Mark Cooper’s time   at posh apart from obviously him signing Exodus 
Jagen um was the four-all draw against Cardiff the   famous 4-nil comeback to 4 in the last minute what 
was that like to be a part of because there’s a   lot of posh fans that still talk about that as one 
of the one of the craziest matches they’ve seen   it was yeah thing is it’s like it was just 
typical posh like we knew we always had that   in in our locker some like somehow we didn’t 
know like I say being 4-0 down at half I think   four down at half time was it we it was just like 
I think we were wearing a white kit that day as   well um so it was just like it was just really 
yeah you think cliff and hell like what what a   day and then you go in the dressing room and you 
obviously you get around each other and you kind   of kind of say like like because we used to love 
shooting towards London Road and we just we just   knew if you got one goal the fans would just suck 
the ball into the net so it was like like we were   kind of going around each other just like saying 
that just just keep going like once if we get one   like we’ll get that momentum and we’ll get the 
second one and like we we got the first and then   you can just feel it once you get the first like 
it just builds and then you get the second and   then you can just feel the energy and then it 
just it just kept going and obviously we were   banging on the door right towards the end and then 
I think is it Josh Simpson scored right at the end   and it was it was never like you know you’re never 
surprised you you’re excited that you you’ve drawn   but we were never surprised because that we knew 
that was the capability of what we had in the team yeah um and that was one of the highlights i 
know I think we beat Watford at home as well   but beyond that it wasn’t long until Mark Cooper 
was gone as well um under Jim Ganon I mean he got   a few results when he came in but clearly didn’t 
actually want to be here for ge geographic reasons   basically and first time in your posh career 
where you had a manager who didn’t see you as   first choice what was that like for you yeah it 
was it was really difficult i didn’t see eye to   eye with Jim at all so it was just I was I found 
it really really frustrating as you said the lot   the two seasons and and maybe the first half of 
the Championship season um I was playing um so I   I was kind of used to that and then obviously he 
came in and he completely changed it he bought I   think he brought Liam Dickson in he bought he went 
a completely different way of playing football um   so we kind of we clashed a lot on the training 
pitch and it’s not really like me but he we just   had we just didn’t see eye to eye at all and I 
was kind of getting frustrated with not playing   um I think there was a point when I was going on 
loan to reading um and then the chairman stopped   it um I went I went in to see um Jim Ganon and he 
was like yeah not in my plans and I so he said you   can go out on loan and Dar kind of I got hold of 
Reading and Reading were going to take me on loan   and then Dar stopped it just as I was literally 
walking out the door to drive down to Reading he   uh he pulled it so and then I came back in and I 
played a couple of games um but as you said like   Jim got a few good results and then obviously he 
didn’t he didn’t fancy it so that was a really   tough time that’s probably the toughest time 
I’ve had in my Peterborough career yeah what   sort why why was he indicating that he didn’t want 
to play you like he seems absolutely mental given   what happened the season after which we’ll get 
on to but what why was what was his reasoning   when you went and knocked on his door um I think 
just maybe and I can take this on the chin i was   probably wasn’t scoring enough maybe whether I 
wasn’t contributing enough when obviously as a   striker you need to be scoring goals and I think 
I I only finished up with I think it was 10 10 or   11 goals that season so I I get it to an extent 
i just think it’s just the way he he came and did   it um it was it just didn’t kind of there wasn’t 
much talk about why or what was going on and so   that’s probably more what left the sour taste in 
my mouth but I also understand as I said being a   center forward you’re judged on goals and and at 
that time I probably wasn’t performing to stay in   the team so he’s going to bring someone else in 
to try and and steady the ship and um he brought   Liam Dickson again completely different striker 
to me big tall but quite powerful so that’s kind   of the way he was looking to play you mentioned 
Darren McCanny there um how involved was he with   with the players in the dressing room did you see 
much of him sort of on your day-to-day basis or   was it very much he was in the background and 
only sort of got involved when needed yeah not   not at all really he’s he’s like he doesn’t come 
come into the dressing room he doesn’t kind of   Yeah like you pass him by chats and stuff like 
that but he’s never really involved he’s he does   stay stay away and give the manager and and the 
player the space that they need to to get on on   with what they’re doing ultimately he’s he’s uh 
brought the manager in he’s he’s bought allowed   the manager to bring the players in so he just he 
allows them to get on with what they need to do so   I know he’s a very enthusiastic man and I know how 
much he loves the club and how like how it’s very   difficult for him to not get involved but he does 
stay away to and give the give the guys what they need and then Jim Ganon was done we’re on to 
our fourth manager of the season uh it was Gary   Johnson coming in next and it kind of leads into 
the beginning of the next season but how did you   feel at that stage was was there any thought 
from you as to whether your time at Posh was   done did Gary Johnson have to do any convincing 
for you to keep you to stay at that stage no like   obviously he he came in towards the end i kind 
of got back into the team um I scored I think   I scored a couple of goals at Plymouth um I think 
I got kind of a few towards the end of the season   um and and obviously he wanted me to kind of stay 
for the next season um I can’t remember off the   top of my head if there was much interest in in 
that in that summer um but obviously like even   if there was and it didn’t come to anything it 
wasn’t a case of like I just wanted I was going   to get on with my job with Peterborough and I 
wanted to put them back in that division and I   obviously wanted to do myself more justice in the 
Championships i don’t think I did did that season   um so obviously he came in and then he he 
kind of got some good results towards the   end of the season obviously unfortunately we were 
relegated and then he we started the next season   and he brought a few other strikers in i think 
Dave Hibbert came in and a couple of others so   again it like had to I had to make sure that I was 
I don’t feel like I had the the it was going to be   like oh yeah Craig M starting because I don’t feel 
my season previous was I know I’d done League One   the year the season before that and done well 
but you kind of get judged off of what you’ve   done previous so I my season wasn’t that great so 
obviously bringing other people in gick up the ass   to to to to really knuckle down again and focus 
on stuff that I needed to focus on because it was   it was a difficult season to to have four managers 
to have lots of kind of ups and downs um it was it   was kind of a really tough I think season for all 
of us in the championship and we didn’t really I   don’t think any of us may maybe boy to an extent 
actually showed what we were really capable of   of the three that you worked with the 
three other managers but Fergie I know   you weren’t with him that long 
but who did you who did you got   on best and who did you feel was 
the best manager of those three um probably Gary Johnson i think uh Mark was 
very young into his career um I think it was   a lot for him to to come in um to try and kind 
of steady this ship and and again I don’t think   the the the the players that are brought in no 
disrespect to them but I don’t think they were   they were at the level that we needed to to to 
help us within that that situation um so I never   I didn’t really get on with Jim Ganon so I can 
only one I can pick with is is Gary Johnson and   obviously he he kind of gave me that confidence 
towards the end of the conference uh the season   in the championship and and then um kind of give 
me confidence leading into the next season and I   had a really good chat with him when we were in 
League One and I jump a little bit here league   that won the next season um we had a little chat 
he kind of had a go at me in the game at Halime   and I think I was sitting on about 14 goals before 
like Christmas um so I pulled him after the game   I think it was and I just I said to him “I’ve 
scoring loads of goals like and you’re on my   case like what’s what’s going on?” And he kind 
of just said to me “Look you’re not doing enough   for the team i need you to hold the ball up more i 
need you to bring more people into play i need you   to do more more of that.” So that was really good 
from him that was a massive kind of uh learning   curve in my career which actually really helped me 
moving forward the 20101 season obviously ended in   such a great way uh and we all sort of remember 
the celebrations which I’m sure we’ll talk talk   about in a minute um but the beginning of the 
season I remember us getting absolutely smashed   away at Bournemouth smashed away at Southampton 
what exactly like changed obviously the manager   changed but what what sort of went wrong like for 
Gary Johnson and what like immediate impacts did   Darren Ferguson sort of put this is also a team 
that has Grant Macan and Lee Tomlin in it now as   well yeah and I don’t know sometimes you kind of 
have that hangover of getting relegated sometimes   it’s kind of that confidence again of of trying 
to find that that little bit of form because   obviously like again quite a lot of us didn’t 
perform to how we wanted to so it was kind of   like finding that belief in yourself again finding 
that that confidence you say but you had two two   really good teams there southampton who weren’t 
really a small team we were looking to kind of   get back up bournemouth were were were strong i 
know i remember I think we went we did we take the   lead against Bournemouth and then I think we lost 
was it 5-1 or something and then I know we we got   beaten by Southampton um I think we got beaten by 
Brighton at home as well and um I think there was   another one in there so just yeah it just didn’t 
quite don’t think it just quite clicked um that   season especially at the beginning and I think 
we were just say more maybe it was a hangover   from coming down from the championship and maybe 
you kind of go into it thinking oh yeah we were   a championship club and it’ll be easy where we 
we left off and and it wasn’t and that kind of   showed in the results that we we got early on even 
when things started to get better in that year the   defense was still shipping goals left right and 
center i think we had as many goals conceded as   one of the teams that got relegated was that at 
all frustrating for you as a striker actually as   I’m asking the question I’m kind of thinking 
it also means you’ve always got to be on the   front foot attacking I guess yeah yeah it never 
it never bothered me like it was always it was   always a thing we knew we knew we were going to 
concede but I think because the way we played and   stuff like that like we always we just always seem 
to concede so as a center forward it was always   like okay can we outscore no no not can we we’re 
going to have to outscore these teams so it kind   of made it a challenge to try to to make sure even 
when we were three or four up it was like flipping   out we need to keep getting goals here just in 
case we we can we can let goals in but yeah it   was never it was never a worry we always knew with 
the way we played with the players we had in our   team because we I think Little might been playing 
right wing back um and maybe Tommy Row and I know   Charlie Lee came in left wing back so we were very 
attacking like they’re not two players that are   like going to sit in and and keep a 442 they’re 
two players that are going to just keep just   bombing on and hoping that I think it was it was 
Beno and Gabby Zack at the back so hoping those   two could just Gabby Zach’s like four players in 
one anyway but it was just hoping that those two   could just defend while the other two wing backs 
went flying up so no there was never there was   never a worry it was just it was just kind of a 
challenge one of the challenges you had personally   was adapting from playing with Aaron McClean to 
playing essentially up front by yourself with   Lee Tomlin behind you what was it like firstly 
adapting to that and playing with Lee Tomlin who   such a creative maverick i’m sure it must have 
been sort of quite hard to get used to that but   obviously it paid off in the end yeah obviously 
with Aaron like we we I’d say we kind of shared   the work i still did all this work anyway but me 
and me and Aaron would we both do running like   obviously it was we there was always someone up 
there with you so you kind of you worked in tandem   obviously Tommo used to sit in the pocket in the 
10 more often than not wouldn’t really run past   you but Tommo was like I love playing with Tommo 
now to be fair as much as I did love playing with   Aaron but when he kind of went it just allowed me 
to loads more space to go wherever I wanted to um   with Tommo sitting in the 10 as well it always 
kind of it if he got the ball in there it always   used to draw center halves out because they were 
so worried about what he was going to do with the   ball so it always left me little holes and little 
pockets to to kind of get into and then obviously   when he got on the ball like I didn’t even have 
to look at him i knew if I made a run he would he   would put it where I wanted it so they were both 
two different players and I I both I love playing   with both like equally and obviously Thomas had 
a went on and had a had a great career and I’ve   seen recently and he’s he’s still still one of 
the best ball playing footballers I’ve played with well uh before we get on sort of the 
culmination of that season there’s one game   that really stood out for me not long I think 
after Fergie come back which was the 44 against   Southampton where we went 2-0 down and 4-2 down 
and one of the goals in that game was completely   down to your trademark charging down the whether 
it was the defender or the goalkeeper that ended   up resulting in one of the goals i just wanted 
to ask really about whether that was coached   into you were there any coaches or did Fergie 
ever discourage it or you know it was such an   integral part of that season was the off the ball 
charging down you know where did it come from as   well like he’s always just felt you wanted to do 
it it’s always it’s always been in me i for some   reason I just love chasing the football like so I 
just I don’t know what it is it’s just literally   like I have I was given a great ability where 
I could sprint and I could and I could repeat   that over and over and over again for 90 minutes 
like I never really got tired like I could almost   replicate the same speed over and over again so it 
was a case of like and what my aim was always to   do was just [ __ ] the center halves out tire the 
defenders out as much as I could chasing them down   because I know that eventually once I do get tired 
they’re going to be they’re going to be more tired   than I am and I think majority of my a lot of my 
goals came in like the 70th minute plus because   I’ i’d wear teams down and players down so much 
that eventually I’d get in um and it was just a   love for the game like I’m I’m never I was never 
the like gifted like unbelievable footballing   ability like like Tommo or a Boydy but I was I 
was given the unbelievable work ethic i could   work harder than anyone else on that football 
pitch as I said I could sprint for for constantly   so it was like every game I went into was like 
I wanted to leave everything I possibly had i   think because of coming from non league I think 
because of like I was worked at home base and   I was going to college and playing football all 
at the same time i understood that like one day   it will go so it was always like I want to leave 
everything on that football pitch in this one game   and then if I get the next game then great I’ll 
do exactly the same and I keep replicating that   until my time with football’s finished so that was 
always always the way that I wanted to play you   mentioned in that answer two unbelievable talents 
uh which were Boyd and Tomlin i’m going to give   you probably the hardest question that you could 
ask one and you got a bench one which way you   going oh that’s that’s that’s that’s a horrible 
question to ask i am sorry but gota get your Well I’d say Boydy I’ I’d start and and Tommo 
like anyone sub Impact sub Lee Tomlin yeah   possible because they’re both like there’s 
obviously both slightly different in who they   are and what they offer and they were just both 
fantastic i was lucky I had both of them playing   on the pitch at the same time and so it’s like 
they they are amazing talents i just think for   me I think obviously Boydy went to the top and and 
stayed there for for a bit and um I think I’d say   Boydy yeah like I say a man after my own heart 
anyone that’s listened to this pod for a while   um I’ve got a dog and he’s called Boydy so that 
that is my my love for the man yeah just just an   unbelievable player um I wanted to talk about 
the about the end of the season we can’t do   2010 11 without the playoffs because I mean the 
the picture there that that is MK Dolls at home   still my favorite posh game at London Roads is it 
your favorite as well or is there any other games   you can think of that were better than it no I 
think for for what the importance of it and and   how it went I think it’s like that’s probably my 
favorite game i think just like the atmosphere is   probably one of the best I’ve ever ever felt 
at London Road i think obviously playing the   first game losing the first game kind of getting 
a dodgy penalty towards the end and and which gave   us a bit of a lifeline i think we knew bringing 
them back here that one goal wasn’t enough for   them like we we knew that once we got on a roll 
once the crowd got going like they weren’t going   to stop us and obviously Grant swung in his free 
kick early on and then that was it from then it   was just a case of like it it’s coming it’s 
just when it’s when is it going to come and   obviously for me to to get it was just like the 
most amazing feeling and obviously the scenes   afterwards everyone running on the pitch and yeah 
I I love that night it’s like I say it’s probably   the favorite memory I have there what was uh the 
impact of Grant McCann’s experience sort of during   that playoff because I think had he won like three 
promotions before then was he sort of instrumental   in that playoff campaign yeah I think it shows 
how important experience is as I said when we went   to the championship we didn’t have really have 
experience we and that’s what we we desperately   needed which I think like I say hindsight’s a 
wonderful thing but it might have given us the   opportunity to stay up because players would have 
an understanding of the league and and what it   takes to to stay within that division obviously 
having Grant in that team he he had he had such   an immense wealth of experience he knew what those 
the playoffs and stuff were like so he he was just   someone that everyone kind of looked up to and 
and he he was a he guided us really obviously   he scored the penalty um at MK he scored the free 
kick uh in the the home leg as well um and then   me scored in the in the final so he was someone 
that that definitely had a huge impact on the team and you know you completely earned your move away 
you went I guess you knew going into that playoff   game that your time at Posh was at the time 
you’d have thought it was over right had you   already landed on a club before well on Brighton 
before the game uh before the playoff final no no   it was just I knew that that was would be my last 
my last game um so and I just wanted to to to do   what I set out to do which was leave Peterborough 
in the championship um again in that that season   I I was I was signing for Norwich in the January 
the my representatives had gone to Norwich they   spoke to him and everything was was was sorted and 
and then they the deal was kind of was was pulled   and from there it was like okay that’s that’s 
like that’s football that’s just the way it goes   so my I’m I’m making sure that when I do leave 
in the summer that posher out of this division   and that was my sole aim and I think that’s what 
drove me to s score so many goals that season was   because I wanted to make sure especially at the 
end that the the club that I loved being at and   love spending my time at got what it deserved and 
obviously to to to score in the final I probably   should have had a hat-tick really um and it kind 
of left the door open being on 99 goals um but   it was It was just a typical per performance by 
Peterborough to to to be nil nil probably should   have been a couple of goals up and then to score 
three goals in the space of seven minutes um it   would just typified what what the team had been 
like over the kind of the the three decent seasons   i kind of exclude this championship season but 
the three decent seasons the the team was like   yeah and you were I think it was 27 league goals 
right 35 all competitions at the end of that i   mean still you got a goal in the final it was 
enough to kill their spirit it was the second goal   wasn’t it i think I think Tommy Row headed in just 
before any other reflections on that on that final   i mean you say you got you got a hat-tick it was 
a tough chance you had in the first half like you   were getting charged down i can’t remember which 
defender it was but uh it was a good uh it was a   little deflection of your goal but yeah any other 
thoughts what was it what was it like afterwards   as well like it must have It’s a bit of an easy 
question but I’m guessing it was just unreal the   atmosphere oh it was it was amazing like I think 
you said like with the goals it was just like I   think because I was in such a great vein of form 
it was just a case of like I expected to score   like I’d gone through almost one-on-one i know 
he came out of nowhere really but it’s like that   I could have probably hit it slightly quicker 
but again it’s hindsight’s a wonderful thing   but yeah my and the sec the goal I scored was just 
happened in slow motion obviously we literally   just scored boyd did got it he was in a bit of 
trouble so I kind of got in got closer to the   near post just in case he couldn’t really cross 
it from there and then as I’ve turned I’ve just   seen I’ve just tried to bend it in the far corner 
and obviously like it’s taken a massive deflection   and as he’s taking a deflection I’ve just watched 
it and you can I can see it go out and the key   hasn’t moved and I can just I can see it go in 
before it’s actually gone in so I’m already off   before the ball’s even hit the back of the net 
and then just the noise and like the exhilaration   and the emotion that like because obviously 
you say we’ve scored 60 seconds earlier and   then we’ve just scored and it’s the 73rd minute 
75th minute so it’s like realistically there’s   there’s no way back for for Huddersfield so it 
was just like it was overwhelming and I think it   was there was excitement there was kind of like 
trying to stay calm because there was there was   still time left and they had very good players 
i think Jordan Rhodess was there daddy Kadamatry   um I think Danny Ward I think they had a real 
real strong team so it was kind of like trying to   really keep your emotions in check to try and get 
through to the full wh full-time whistle and then   afterwards it was just it was it was bittersweet 
really because obviously to to win uh to to get   pro to promoted with the club it was it was an 
amazing uh kind of uh accomplishment but then   obviously it culminated in the end of a journey 
so it was kind of like I was leaving leaving at   that m like soon as that whistle gone that was my 
last kind of moments for for Peterborough so it   was like I had an amazing amazing joy but I also 
had like sadness in the sense that it’s it’s come   to an end and I’m I’m moving on we’re not going 
to spend too long on your your time at Brighton   because obviously we’re up the posh cast um but 
um I was doing some research for this and the   players you you went into the squad there with 
were there was some good players i mean you had   England internationals in there and and Spanish 
internationals I think could you tell the standard   jump like immediately and who was the best player 
in that squad did you think over your time there   um you could tell yeah the standards like kind 
of went up obviously when I joined Brighton the   ground they just built the AMX um you kind of 
see like the the the chairman had a vision and   like he and I feel and I had a real faith that he 
could achieve that so that’s what kind of drew me   towards the club he he’d put a lot of money in to 
build a stadium he like he was looking to build a   training ground which he did on my last season 
there which was like 30 million pound the squad   obviously was strong they just won the league and 
they were adding so it was like a real amazing   kind of journey to begin with that club um and 
obviously it was there was a kind of step up   in expectation a step up expectation in standard 
obviously you had Gus as a manager who had played   at the highest level so um it it was a little bit 
difficult in my first time there because like when   I kind of started because he went from trying 
to play the way I wanted to play which was get   the ball forward early get me in behind use my 
pace and harassment and then he kind of realized   that didn’t couldn’t quite do that so that the the 
whole way the the team played completely changed   so I had to kind of learn a new way of playing 
so that that was really difficult my time there   um but ultimately the the best player I played 
with there was a guy called Vicente um who was   kind of Valencia and then Real Madrid I think 
tried to buy him um the only thing obviously the   stroke he struggled with was injuries and I think 
even when he was at Brighton he probably was only   75% fit and he was just ridiculous like he could 
drift past players he was he was very similar to   Boydy but just had a like more pace um he was and 
he he could go ether foot so he could go on his   right and his left boy had an he could use us his 
right but his left was ridiculous but he was just   phenomenal and just he like how the Spanish he was 
kind of like just before I think the Zabies and   Iniestas and all of that or they were just coming 
in at that point in time he was around he was like   like them and that was uh it was amazing to be 
kind of on the training pitch with him and just   watch him and then when he got to play it was just 
kind of like just trying to take pointers really   of like what he was doing um but yeah I love my 
time at Brighton even though it didn’t go to how   I wanted to do obviously I got a major injury i 
missed 13 months there but football’s football   these things happen and um I I was blessed to 
to have the opportunity to do it and and yeah   I’d always be grateful for that and left with a 
couple of unbelievable overhead kick highlights   as well right i I don’t know if you did any of 
those at Posh but I remember seeing a couple of   them pop up so unlucky with the injuries because 
it was what Achilles and Did you do your knee as   well so no so I did my just my Achilles was when I 
was there so I kind of it was it was really tough   because I did my kiddies in the March we missed 
out on automatic promotion to the Premier League   by three points and I missed the playoffs against 
Palace um that season and we lost to Palace in   the playoffs so it was a real difficult uh kind of 
period but it it taught me a lot i think it’s it’s   looking back now it’s given me a lot of insight 
into the kind of the stuff I do now and and like   the mental side of it and the physical side so I 
look it as a blessing in a way that like it’s it’s   allowed me to now help other people with kind of 
those issues yeah totally and uh you know we we do   definitely want to ask you at the end of this pod 
about uh what you’re up to now with with your own   uh with your own pod but I’m glossing essentially 
over three years we’re now 2014 talk to us about   what was that first contact like from Posh what 
you know the idea of of coming back and was it a   hard decision um no it wasn’t a hard decision 
it was obviously that that that period of time   is I’d come off I was coming off the back of the 
Achilles injury i wasn’t really getting much time   um playing um so obviously the first team 
I’m going to call is is Peterborough and and   to get to get minutes and and and play and 
um obviously I came down but it was a very   short stint because I think I was only here 
for I was only there for like three games   because I think the the Brighton manager Sammy 
Hippie got sacked and this is like I think this   was Christmas as well so I think I came in 
and played late in Orient i think I played   um I think Bristol City was one and I think 
there was another game that I played um so it   was again it was frustrating because I wanted to 
to obviously to be there and play minutes but then   also exciting kind of going back to Brighton to 
play but it was just very very whirlwind as I said   I didn’t kind of get into my stride because I say 
I was coming off of the Achilles injuries i was   probably a lot heavier than I wanted to be i was 
probably six or seven kilos heavier than I should   have been um but I enjoyed it for those three 
games and then I was off again i was going to say   did you notice because obviously that that team 
it wasn’t great if I’m honest that that sort of   era of posh we we’d gone from being that just 
unstoppable force to being sort of like mid-table   could you tell a difference in the squad what 
was the atmosphere like when you got back did it   seem all different or was it actually relatively 
similar uh it was a little bit different i think   obviously the when I was there the first time it’s 
like we grew up together like we lived around the   corners from each other we’d spend every waking 
moment with each other like we were like a family   so you developed such a an amazing bond and you 
could feel that in the dressing room obviously   going back not everyone was there it was kind of 
there was new some not like it was it it wasn’t   quite it didn’t have the same feel the same kind 
of um expectation from each other to to perform   it just wasn’t kind of And I think that’s 
probably maybe why the team kind of was   mid-table because it wasn’t Yeah it just didn’t 
didn’t feel as driven as when we were there i suppose the squad well the players that 
were there the previous season were sort of   ripped apart and gone elsewhere um but Darren 
Ferguson had stayed on uh that season did you   notice a change in him because I think even he 
admits himself that he was so heavily deflated   from the relegation the previous season that he 
wasn’t sort of in the right frame of mind to lead   another promotion charge didn’t notice too much 
obviously I went in and we had a good chat and   um obviously I came in with experience to to help 
um kind of push the team forward so there wasn’t I   didn’t didn’t notice too much difference obviously 
you said like whenever you kind of get relegated   there’s always a hangover there’s always that that 
that disappointment obviously for for Posh to have   got relegate from the Championship that season 
it was like 54 points wasn’t it so it was was it   that that season or was that the season before but 
like he just felt Yeah he he still felt the same   i just think he he was working with a different 
type of player um and it’s kind of just you just   have to get you kind of have to take that on the 
chin that disappointment and try and push forward and I mean I don’t know if there’s much more 
to say on 145 but another year passes it’s now   Grant McCann at the helm if I remember rightly and 
you’re coming back for stint number three you’re   seeking the hundth goal right did you didn’t I’m 
trying to remember did you score in those three   games you still got the hundth to go um kind 
of comment really what was what was it like   i suppose it might have been similar to when you 
first joined you got this fresh new manager he’s   not long after playing and also was there at all 
any camaraderie with you and him given that you   played together and helping him as he went about 
becoming a manager you know for the first time   yeah so obviously I think I was at Luton at 
the time i had to come off another injury had   broke my ankle like I think eight or nine months 
previous um they they had some young forwards in   and I think Nathan Jones was a manager and 
he kind of just said like my time is going   to be limited um again first phone call is to to 
Peterborough to to see if there’s any opportunity   and obviously Grant was manager um so it was kind 
of like I was hoping that he’d like say yeah like   to come in and have have some experience around 
the place obviously I’ like played at the level   I’d played in Championship done international 
football so I had lots of experience and obviously   we played together so he kind of knew who I was 
as a character and what I’d bring to the to the   dressing room um so I think that was kind of like 
it helped both of us me coming back and playing   football obviously trying to get to this 100th 
goal but also me kind of being in and around the   dressing room helping the younger lads through 
trying to to help them with like my experience   and obviously helping Grant with whatever way 
he needed what was uh what was Grant like as a   manager could was he similar to Fergie different 
could you sense similarities um I think he’s a bit   more fiery than Fergie um I think obviously there 
styles weren’t too dissimilar i think Grant liked   it was a bit more build up play um but they were 
both very fiery um I think obviously Grant kind   of when I went in was kind of learning his his 
way learning kind of who he was as a manager um   because I think it’s a tough thing that separate 
yourself from the the playing role the playing   banter and all that then you have to become 
a manager and it becomes there’s a divide so   I think he was learning all of that as he went 
along um so I think he done done a really good   job at at Peterborough but obviously there was 
just I don’t know the ins and outs of it but I   think it was probably a wrong decision to let him 
go and then obviously over the few years now he’s   really proven himself as a as a top manager which 
he kind of like what he did on the training ground   and then obviously has seen him kind of firsthand 
in his like first role and knew like he would   take all of that from his playing career into his 
management career and he’s done that and and he’s   he’s been really successful with it one of the 
key players for Posh during that period was Marcus   Madison what was he like to a play with share 
a pitch with but also b share a dressing room with an amazing talent amazing talent like some of the things he 
would do in training like he was just phenomenal   like he had so much ability and you could see that 
on the pitch like the amount of assists he got the   goals he’d score um I think as he got a little 
bit older and when I wasn’t kind of in the in   the team as in like I was away from the club you 
could see he he grew into a really good footballer   but just off the pitch he just he just wasn’t I 
don’t know he just It’s hard to explain he just   wasn’t I don’t know whether he was dedicated 
enough or focused enough or he there was a lot   that I think if he had the right mindset he would 
have played in the Premier League because I think   he just had he had that ability but there was just 
obviously something that with that that held him   back from reaching that which is a shame because 
obviously as I said like he had so much ability   that he could have he probably I think he could 
have graced the Premier League yeah and we had   it I think he was here for eight years in the end 
and we all saw that you know the the things that   he was able to do were just unbelievable on his 
day but you always tell there was something just   not quite not quite right off the off the pitch 
um and I probably won’t say anymore because I’m   sure anyone can go read newspapers if they want 
to see how how he’s doing now um any other you   know good players that you were you were playing 
with that time i think Samuelson that young West   Ham looney was in the door at the same time as 
you at one point and he had a couple of um you   know really good games have I got that right 
trying to think yeah Samson was there was Paul   Taylor there at the time no came back yeah yeah 
because Paul Taylor back leave Paul Taylor he did   leave i can’t remember he didn’t left and went to 
Ipswich and then some obviously in the roundabout   way he kind of think we ended up back together at 
Peterborough but out of all like you’re talking   about like Boydy and Tommo and and stuff like 
that he’s probably one of the most talented   players I’ve seen like and and he had something 
that Tom that Boyd and Tommo didn’t have which   was pace like he he I think again like obviously 
there’s probably stuff going on in the background   but like he I believe he could have gone right to 
the top like some of the goals he’d scored in the   championship some of the the goals say he scored 
like he had some serious ability and he’s he’s   one that I feel like could have done more within 
the game um but as you said Samson was good he was   young he was up and coming um he he had great feet 
about him again maybe he was just learning what   the league was about maybe the physicality was 
like he could have worked on his physicality a bit   more but there was a few good I think Leo de Silva 
was there um I think he was he was very good um   obviously he’s gone on to have a fantastic career 
so he he he was one that that really stood out so   there was a few here and there like sprinkled 
about um that that were in the team and I think   we were we were probably that season we were kind 
of close to the playoffs and I think we might have   had a big fall off and we kind of ended up missing 
out that season but it for me like going back like   obviously Grant as manager going back and scoring 
my 100th goal um I think I got to 104 in the end   which again I probably could have got five six 
seven more with the chances I had before the   100th goal um but I think I re I achieved what 
I I set out to do i I guess I kind of got two   questions i mean reflecting on that just you 
kind of said it but the fact that you hit the   100 goals in the end 104 just amazing did you did 
you ever think you would do that when you I think   the answer is probably going to be yes but when 
you joined all going all the way back to 2006 or   whatever it was 2007 did you think you were ever 
going to hit that for what for one club um to be   honest no like I I came to Peterborough um excited 
obviously becoming a professional footballer like   at 23 was was an was amazing for me so I was kind 
of just full of excitement and just kind of seeing   where it goes just trying to be the best I could 
possibly be score goals obviously the dream was   to reach the Premier League and what I achieved 
kind of through my time with Peterborough like   is something that will live long in my heart i 
can’t I couldn’t have asked to have joined a that   better team in that moment in time it’s kind of 
a a blueprint that everyone I think follows now   everyone’s after the the young non-league player 
they’re trying to create these young managers and   I think Peterborough probably the first or one of 
the first teams to to to dive into that market and   over the last kind of what 20 is it 20 years 200 
almost 20 years like they they’ve they’ve competed   at at the the the kind of in the the league 
in League One trying to and pushing into the   championship so no I’ve loved my journey like to 
finish on 104 goals was was amazing i really tried   to stay at the end of that season that with Grant 
um I think the kind of pushed it with the chairman   but he ended up signing Ricky Miller instead of 
me so that was a bit frustrating because I still   felt there was a lot of life left in me um I think 
I maybe scored five or six goals in about 16 games   or something that season so I know there was more 
more more goals to come for me but again football   was football and and you move on and and that 
was the the last time I I played for posh but I   say I’m very lucky that I had the time that I did 
craig outside of your club career uh was it seven   caps that you managed to get for Scotland how did 
that come around because I remember at the time   it seemed a bit out of the blue can you not tell 
by my thick Scottish accent why I uh represented   them no so it’s it’s weird so when I joined some 
obviously my nan Scottish that’s how I qualified   but like I have quite aunts and uncles who are 
Scottish um and a good heritage there so when   I joined I actually asked Barry to find out if 
I was ellegible if I could play for Scotland um   and he he he found he checked with uh who was the 
manager came to watch me george Burley came and   watched and wasn’t interested in me representing 
Scotland and then the season I was doing really   well scoring loads of goals i think um Craig 
Deavine um was a manager and obviously took   a liking to what he saw and he um he gave me a a 
phone call um I can’t remember whether we played   MK Dons away or Bristol Rovers away and I got a 
phone call just saying like that you wanted to be   called up into the Scotland squad and um the first 
game is going to be against Brazil at the Emirates   so it was just an absolute like blur but I’m 
really I’m really proud of like I say my family’s   heritage and I was really proud to to to stick the 
the shirt on and represent the country seven times   i’m just going to we we looked up last night uh 
Craig some of the players you shared a pitch with   across that Brazil game and also Spain you were 
on the pitch with Neymar with uh I mean that Spain   team was just unbelievable we obviously had Busett 
Zavi David Via any reflections on those just games   against those giants at a national level um so the 
Brazil one was was amazing like probably the most   nervous I’ve ever been going into in like a team 
hotel like obviously like you see Kenny Miller and   uh Darren Fletcher and um I think McGregor and all 
these women and it’s it’s like and I’ve obviously   I’ve just kind of come out Dagen from Dagum a 
few years ago i’m playing for Peterborough and   I’m standing in the same kind of room as them it 
was just like I was pinching myself to to to see   how far I’d come um and then obviously you train 
we trained at the Emirates the night before to   and again to go and step inside the Emirates when 
it’s empty and it was just an amazing experience   and then I think going on the coach to the to the 
Emirates from the hotel again I was so nervous   and I kind of had my eyes closed just trying to 
get in the zone trying to put my headphones on   but then I was like if I don’t open my eyes and 
see what’s going on I’m going to miss something   spectacular and obviously then open it up and you 
could just see like all the Scotland flags and   the Brazil flags just lying in the street it was 
just phenomenal like it was just it’s just such   an amazing memory and then I didn’t really expect 
to play to be honest like it was I know it was an   exhibition game but I’d only kind of just come 
into the team from uh I think someone pulled out   but then to go in the dressing room seeing my name 
on the back of my Scotland shirt going warm up and   then obviously watching the game seeing Neymar 
like like doing his thing it was just immense   and then just kind of 10 minutes ago he kind of 
said like get yourself warm going on and on away   and I so I got into the pitch like just everything 
would just take over and it was just yeah running   around chasing Lucio and Danny Alves and like 
watching Neymar twist up everyone it was just   phenomenal and then obviously to to play a few 
more games and then obviously I get to play Spain   i scored against Lichenstein the on the I think 
the the the game before in a Euro qualifier I   scored in Lichenstein which meant we and then 
again like warming up and there’s Puo and there’s   Ramos and there’s say Iniesta and Buskets and like 
Fernando Torres and it’s like these guys have just   been playing like Real Madrid Barcelona games 
and I’m like standing on the same pitch so it   was just yeah immense and then like I think there 
was first couple of minutes we didn’t touch the   ball and we were 1 nil down and I was like “Wow 
this is going to be a long long hot evening.” And   then there ball went over the down the channel 
and I think I raced Puyo and I might have gone   shoulder-to-shoulder with him and knocked him 
over and in that kind of in that moment I was   like “No I I know I can do this.” So then and 
I ended up playing 90 minutes i won a penalty   um had like a couple of chances on goal which 
Valdez saved um and then I ended up getting I   think it was PK shirt at the end of the game so it 
was just yeah phenomenal to just to be in on those   on the pitch with those guys and just see like how 
they perform week in week out was just something   that again like I’ve got all my caps on my shirts 
everything which I can my kids all love to to look   at and realize that dad actually did play football 
pretty well that is an absolutely unbelievable   list of names by the way you’ve just reeled off 
that it’s been unbelievable um I just wanna as we   get towards the end now I just want to basically 
bring us up to modern day um I know you did some   work with Ricky J jones last summer didn’t you as 
far as I’m aware you like did a bit of coaching   work with him uh he’s obviously left posh now as 
we speak where do you see his ceiling and what do   you sort of see the areas that he needs to work 
in um in the future out um I think that he’s he’s   got one thing that everyone wants and it’s pace 
i think I saw a stat the other day and he said   he’s the quickest player in the world um so he’s 
got one he’s got something that everyone wants   and I think for him it’s just he’s becoming more 
consistent in in front of goal and I think for   him and when I speak to a lot of young lads when I 
work with him it’s like it’s working out now what   their strengths they are how they how they look at 
the game i think that’s what he has to do wherever   he he goes whatever team he goes in whatever 
league he he he goes in he now needs to see like   what his strengths are and how he can utilize them 
and how he can then cause defens’s problems as I   said for him he’s got blistering pace so it would 
be a case of trying to create space so he can   exploit that um which kind of we we spoke about 
um together and I think obviously his finishing   needs to to improve just like any striker does 
there isn’t a point I don’t think when you’re a   striker when you you can you stop improving you’re 
always trying to fine-tune it so it’s something   that I feel like the last few seasons he’s really 
honed in on because his his goal returns is has   improved a lot um but I think he I think he go 
to the top as I said I think as long as he’s he’s   willing to keep learning and keep evaluating his 
own performances and keep evolving then I think   he he can he can definitely play at the top level 
and just on general posh thoughts next season now   Ricky’s gone um where do you think we need to 
strengthen you you come back a few times where   have you spotted any areas that you think it’s 
gone wrong for posh because this season’s well   last season now wasn’t the best it’s tough it’s 
really tough because I said that earlier like Posh   have had 18 plus years of of competing or more 
often than not they’re competing and sometimes   at some stage it’s you’re going to not have the 
players to do that and they say last season you   lost uh Efron you lost Harrison you lost Ronny 
lost three unbelievably good players there um and   then this season you you’ve lo like Ricky’s gone 
um uh Hector’s gone so there’s like you’re losing   quality players but you you’ve brought young 
good young players in it just takes time like   when Ronnie came in when Efron came in when Ricky 
came in they all needed time to bed in they all   needed like a season or so to to bed in to then 
actually become the player that they’ve become   so I think maybe a little bit more experience 
would help Posh I think at this moment in time   because again I think this is a transition like 
period i think there’s a lot of young players and   I think there’s some old heads in there who can 
just guide the guide the younger players through   through I think is important um and I think that’s 
it really like I say some of the performances have   been good um defensively I think maybe it could 
be a little bit tighter um but again it’s it’s   it’s just the recruitment now like what the what 
the the club’s going to do i’ve seen they sign   the young lad is it Carell from from Brainree um 
who’s exciting i’ve um I do work with Woking so   I’ve seen him like um when we played him and 
he he looked very good very sharp um so again   I think it’s just it’d be a better season in a 
sense of the the only lads now have had a season   to understand what it’s like what the expectations 
are i just I just hope that Peterborough can maybe   bring a bit of experience in might have to push 
the the boat out he might have to pay him a little   bit more money but I think in the in the long 
run I think that that will really help the club absolutely so you are still involved in coaching 
but then also away from the pitch as as we wrap   up the pod you have your own uh Assist podcast 
UK just talk to us about about that it’s a it’s   primarily but by by the looks of it for raise 
raising awareness of of sports professionals   being being open about their mental health while 
during their careers rather than waiting until   afterwards to talk about talk about everything 
they’ve bottled up yeah so I’m kind of don’t   hide it i suffered a lot throughout my career with 
with mental health and it was never really finding   the kind of the right avenues and and I feel like 
it’s very it’s very hush hush men’s mental health   it’s always kind of we always have this bravado 
just bottle it down and take it in and just get   on with life and stuff like that and I think that 
that’s only a way that’s more of a dangerous way   to look at it because for me ultimately like 
the more I bottled it down the worse it got and   like as I came out the back end of football um it 
kind of all came out and I really struggled so on   my kind of journey I met my my good friend Jim 
Burnside who kind of has seen it from the like   the lower leagues and and but has had his own 
kind of issues and stuff so we talk about like   the stuff that we’ve been through and and and how 
it how it affected us we’ve had guests on to to   speak about kind of their their experiences um and 
what what’s kind of touched them and what’s been   really difficult for them and it’s kind of just 
given guys a platform and it is men and men’s   mental health and at the moment it’s majority 
football but we will kind of be looking into in   the future like more sports stars businesses all 
different types of stuff because it’s not just   men in football who suffer every men in doesn’t 
matter what kind of area of work you are every   everyone suffers at sometimes so it’s just to 
say showing that it’s all right that top players   um and people in the sports industry suffer just 
as much as everyone else um and we’re being brave   enough to to express that to to not be scared 
of the stigma that it comes with um and being   vulnerable and and kind of allowing hopefully 
other voices and other people to feel that   that that they can be vulnerable as well and and 
it’s not not scary to tell anyone that you are   suffering um and again hopefully down the line 
we’ll have more kind of people who will help in   different avenues kind of like breath work like 
psychologist sport psychologist different ways   and means because it’s all well and good us kind 
of saying yeah we’ve got these issues but it’s   also like how do we then help people with these 
issues so eventually it will just keep evolving   um uh down the down the line and hopefully we 
can kind of keep helping people and and say be   more vulnerable absolutely and just one more 
time it is the Assist Podcast UK uh and seeing   as this is a PE reunited pod I can tell you that 
Craig’s already had Aaron McClean and Barry Fry   on it’s very it’s a it’s a good listen uh really 
thoughtprovoking listing some of those episodes um   yeah it’s great work thank you Craig where’s your 
future going what’s your aspirations are you going   to continue your coaching and maybe one day end up 
in a managerial role or are you trying to sort of   pack in that side of things yeah not no man no 
management role for me it’s not that’s not not   that side of it i’ve played it and I’ve and I’ve 
seen that side of it and it’s not something like I   tip my hat to all the guys that go into management 
because it is a real tough industry and there’s a   lot of moving parts and yeah that’s not something 
I kind of want to go into i’ve at the moment in   time I work with Woken as head of performance 
so I do kind of all the the gym work and stuff   like that um I do striker training so I work with 
strikers and and other players um and I’ve just   started doing kind of like biomechanics functional 
training so looking at people’s kind of like their   their postures and how they hold themselves 
and then recind of helping with that and then   building strength on top of that and then I’m 
going to try and merge the two with like football   um as well so there’s I’ve got quite a few things 
going on um my my aim is to kind of be training   like the top top people in the world say on 
biomechanics and like footballers on on finishing   so I’ve got an aim like and it’s just just bit 
piece by piece now just building it together we   won’t rule out a fourth stint at Peterborough for 
Craig Mackail-Smith then because I think some of   our strikers could do with some finishing work 
over the body of work at last season anyway um   thank you so much for your time Craig we we really 
appreciate it obviously we’ve been here like an   hour and 20 minutes now absolutely class um before 
we sign off we always do this uh basically we   always say up the podcast we would love a Craig 
Mackail-Smith up the poshcast before we go if   that’s all right with you up the Poshcast up the 
Poshcast up the Thank you all for listening don’t   forget to follow us on Twitter up the Poshcast let 
us know your feedback give us any ideas for topics   you would like us to discuss or any questions 
you’d like us to answer after the podcast thank   you so much for that honestly it’s been an 
absolute pleasure i love listening to all that   um hope you enjoyed it yeah no I loved it mate i 
love I say I love talking about it and obviously   just kind of reminiscing about all the things 
and it’s uh it’s great to do i always enjoy him

🎙️ Welcome to the latest episode of UpThePoshcast!
S01 EP64

Watch our Summer Series:

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We sit down with Craig Mackail-Smith for an exclusive interview looking back at his legendary Peterborough United career. From unforgettable promotions to challenging moments, Craig reveals all on his time at Posh

🎙️ In this episode:
•⁠ ⁠The club Darragh MacAnthony stopped him from leaving Posh to 🙅‍♂️
•⁠ ⁠Inside stories from back-to-back promotions & THAT day at Old Trafford 🍾
•⁠ ⁠Craig settles the debate: Lee Tomlin vs George Boyd – who was better? ✨
•⁠ ⁠Honest insights on Grant McCann as a manager – and how he compares to Darren Ferguson 😡
•⁠ ⁠The truth about playing with Marcus Maddison 😬
•⁠ ⁠⁠His latest ventures into coaching and men’s mental health 💪
•⁠ ⁠And loads more from Craig Mackail-Smith!

⚽ If you’re a Posh fan or love raw football stories, this is one you don’t want to miss.

👉 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell for more exclusive Peterborough United content!

#PeterboroughUnited #CraigMackailSmith #UpThePoshcast #EFL #LeagueOne #FootballPodcast #LeeTomlin #GeorgeBoyd #MarcusMaddison #GrantMcCann #DarrenFerguson #DMAC #OldTrafford #Posh #assistpodcastuk