Join Cam and Brian as we chat with the 2022 @IronmanNewZealand winner, Dan Plews.
Greetings everyone. This is Mike Riley, the voice of Iron Man, and this is the Old School Tri Show with my Kiwi mates Cameron Harper and Brian Ashby. The show that talks about all things triathlon, old and new. We’re powered by Ansgo Foods, bringing you nutrition and good health from New Zealand’s beef and lamb. Thanks for listening, everyone. Enjoy the show. Hello and welcome along to another edition of the Old School try show brought to you by our great friends at Ansco Foods. And today, Brian, well, 2022 was a very different race. No professionals, but uh very different. And that we get an amateur winner. We get an amateur winner. And this winner, well, not only did he win in Toppo, but he went on to be the fastest ever amateur iron man in the world. Dan PL Ansco Foods is proud to be the new naming partner of Iron Man New Zealand, ensuring every stroke, pedal, and stride is powered by the best nature has to offer. Ansco Foods is on a mission to bring nutrition and good health from New Zealand’s finest beef and lamb. Antsco Foods, putting the iron in Iron Man with New Zealand’s finest beef and lamb. Visit antscofoods.com/ironman to find out more. [Music] Well, first of all, Dan, when I look at your we look at your race records, your race history, and everything else and in an age group athlete going under 8 hours, we know you’re Dr. Dan PL, and we’ll talk more about that, but did you ever contemplate being a professional athlete? Because you would have done exceptionally well, you would think. Um, yeah, it’s it’s a good question and and I have that question many times. and to go I mean I actually did race a little bit professionally once um I wouldn’t say as a professional I raced in the professional category but that was when I was um because my background I mean I started doing triathlons when I was 9 years old right so I kind of always had this kind of idea that I wanted to be a professional but I was very much into the Olympic distance and I remember at the time when I was at my university the coach there said oh you should try the long distance you’ll probably be he thought I was more suited to suited to that but I didn’t really want to have a um have a bar of it at the time but you know it just never I went to um because when I was and I moved I moved out of I finished my masters I did my masters in exercise physiology at Leeds I moved over to Singapore when I was in Singapore and I must have been mid 20s by that point so 25ish I actually did a few pro races um I raced to Singapore 70.3 as a professional then um and I actually qualified for Clear water um back, you know, that was like the very early days. I think it was one of the first ever Clear Water 70.3 World Champs and Craig Alexander won it by memory. But for one reason or another, I didn’t go um one and it’s honestly to this day it’s one of my biggest regrets I have as a as an athlete and I didn’t go because I had to run a training camp for um company I was working for. But um but then you know I moved I moved to New Zealand and then I did my PhD and I worked for the rowing team and and at that point there if you look at my I only did my first Iron Man in 2013 um I man New Zealand which was my first ever one and I only then I would kind of skip all the time because I would do I kind of did 13 and then and then I think my next one was 15 and then I missed 16 because it was the Olympics and I was you know Olympic years I could never do because I was always away with the rowing team. Um and then I did yeah 17 and then 18. Yeah. So and then and um by the time I’d done 18 I’d never my my plan was always to kind of I would you know guess retire would be the would be a word but like I didn’t really plan to come back racing after that. So I only came back in 2022 when I when I turned 40. So, so it was never really it was never really something that I wanted to do. And by the time I I guess the most logical time to turn professional would have been in 2018 after I broke the record in Kona for the Ace Group. But um I never plan to race again. So there was obviously no I wouldn’t be making much money. Yeah. So, it it sounds as though I mean you’ve had a lifetime of um kind of wrestling your sport with academia. Yeah, exactly. And it just it’s just one of those things that you never really materialized really into um into into anything professional. And you know, and I I don’t think I would have made a great living out of being a professional the way it panned out. The only the only way I think it may have changed is if I went into the longer distance and I really focused on it a bit earlier, you know. Um I think perhaps then I might have made a bit more of being a professional and maybe I could have jumped on something but um but I have no regrets like I did my you know I think everything happens for a reason and it’s it’s quite hard to like be in academia and travel a lot and race professionally and it just you know I guess I chose a career over over the professional career. And and for you, Dan, you talked about your first triathlon at 9 years old. Sport was always a part of your life, obviously. Yeah. I mean, my dad my dad was a good cyclist. So, you know, he raced um road racing, cycling time trials. He ran marathons. He started to run marathons in the end as well. So, natural progression is obviously then you start doing triathlon. To this day, he still swims like swims like a floating twig as a result. But um but yeah and then and then yeah my dad because my dad was doing it then you kind of do what your dad does right and you you follow it. I did my first swim run event which was a I think it was like a 100 meter swim and a onem run when I was 9 years old. Yeah. And that was kind of the start of it really. And yeah, nationally, you know, they had back then they had something in the UK called the Milk Series. Um, which was like a series, it’s like the Weederitch tribe, but the UK version, the children’s series. So, you know, you get out the pool and you the bike would be on a grass field outside the front and you’d bomb around there and then run around the inside. And so, yeah. And um yeah, I did I did that really just as you’ve sort of worked through and and this is a and I look at progression particularly like over the course of the years with your marathon times and so on. This is a question one of the early episodes of the old school try show we we sort of put there in Baker knowing how John Helerman’s had worked with her back in the day that she was kind of um John’s lab rat. Are you your own lab rat? Is that is that is that how it’s worked for you? Um yeah, I mean I guess you were always tinkering and always um experimenting. I mean I think um I mean I always had a lot of help from Gordon Walker, but you probably know. Yeah. You know, so Gordy was always in my corner and he was always guiding me and giving me a lot of guidance with especially when I moved to Iron Man because I didn’t really know that much about it, you know, in 2013. And you know, he helped me throughout my entire career right until I broke I went under eight hours. So I’ve always had him um as a bit of a a bit of a guider which has been which has been amazing. But I think you know you find a formula and and even if I look at the way that if I look at Lisa Carrington for example you know I work closely with Lisa and Gordy and with within the women’s kite program still and when I look at all of her years the training hasn’t changed that much. It’s just slight iterations on something that works. you know, you’re just kind of very you’re not reiterating the wheel. You’re just tinkering and changing things and and I think for me that’s I found a formula that worked for me and I never really changed it and I you know I just kind of a few iterations and a few tinkers here and there but I found just something that worked for me. Um and and you know I monitored a lot on myself as well. This was beyond what Gordy would have me doing because I was kind of, you know, measuring the lights, using my heart rate variability, looking at the resting the resting um heart rates and um and it was great. Yeah. So, when you get an athlete comes under your guidance, uh Dan, what’s one of the first things you’ll look at for them, whether it’s a professional at the top of their game or just an age group, back of the pack person that wants to improve on their times? Yeah, the first thing we always do is well firstly we get them set up and kind of just look at the training history but it’s always a case of looking under the hood a little bit. So when when I can I’ll always try and get them in an exercise physiology lab because I just don’t because I always will try and try and get an understanding of what’s you know who they are as an athlete. I have an idea of what the determinants of success in Iron Man triathon are which are probably different well they’re different to they will be different to Olympic distance or you know what what makes someone good at iron man is very different to what makes someone good at an Olympic distance or a sprint distance or even a 70.3 for that matter. So I’ll take a look at their their physiology and then almost do a performance gap analysis and it’s the exact same principles that you’d apply to almost any sport. You know we do that we do that rowing we do that kayak. uh you’re just looking where the gaps lie. So, you know, they might have um a poor threshold, they might have poor economy, they might have um a poor fat metabolism, they might have poor poor substrate utilization. And you kind of look at look at their whole physiological profile and then you say, okay, the thresholds the threshold at VT2 is is good, but at VT1 it’s way too low. So, you know, you kind of look at where you want to need to take the program to gradually progress. I mean a prime example at the moment is I work with a Swiss athlete called Fabian Mucen. He is um great VT1, terrible VT2. So you know we’re doing a lot a lot of the a lot of work at the moment just to really it’s almost exclusively towards his first races slowly but surely like three threshold sessions a week trying to bring up that kind of VT2 cycling power. So let’s look at um in terms of your own racing. Did you always sort of gravitate towards the the longer distance? You know, we note you, you know, your first Iron Man in 2013. We was it always was that always going to be your strength, the longer distances? Uh unknowingly to me, I think it always was. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think when I look back growing up, I was always very good at long doing longer rides, you know, I don’t think to this day I’ve ever bonked ever in my life. I’ve never had that feeling. Yeah. Um you know, so when I when I was I used to go out riding with my dad and you know, I would never I’ve never had that kind of feeling ever. So I think I was naturally quite good at going long. Um but I I was never really on the cards. The reason I when I first came to New Zealand. So I moved to New Zealand from Singapore in 2011 2011 the year and it was the year remember when it absolutely poured with rain the whole day at Iron Man New Zealand. It was 2011 wasn’t it? Yeah. Yeah. 12 was the shortened one. Sorry. 2012 was a shortened one. Yeah. And 12 I was um I was at the Olympics anyway. It was the Olympic year. So I don’t think I I went down to that. But yeah, I was there and my my PhD supervisor, Paul Lawson, did that race. So I went down to watch him um and I was like, “Yeah, this doesn’t look that that much fun.” Yeah, I remember it very vividly. But but um but Paul Paul was really into his long-distance triathlon. So my PhD supervisor, we used to I used I was training with him for that event a lot just because, you know, we lived close to one another. And then um we’d got through 2012 Olympics and he wanted to do it again in 2013 and that’s when um yeah and then um I said well I’ll do it with you and we trained together for it. So it was more I think Paul’s done like by that point he’d done about 13 Iron Man races. So um you know he’s he’d done a lot and it was more that he was doing it so I thought I’d jump on there too and and do it with him. Yeah. So for your for your first Iron Man here in New Zealand Dan what was your expectation lining up on the day? I mean, obviously you know that you’re fit. You know you’re strong. You’re a smart guy, but what’s your expectation lining up first time? Yeah. Well, I I I wanted to break nine hours. That was my aim. I didn’t do it. But um but I remember that Paul was like, he goes, “No, you’re not going to break nine hours. You need to curb your expectations.” And I was like, “I’m going to break nine hours. What are you talking about? I’m doing the math. All I have to do is run this and swim this and you know how it goes.” But um but yeah, that that that was my aim. But I remember um I think I came second in my age group. Yeah. That year Rob Casy beat me. He only just beat me and he’d done an Iron Man before. So yeah. And a good athlete with it. And he’s a good athlete and he and he beat he at that point he was beating me nearly all the time anyway. So we’d race each other a lot. And um I think it’s one of those situations where he was kind of my nemesis but I don’t think he knew that I existed kind of thing, you know. Yeah. So, um, so, so, yeah, but I remember very, uh, specifically because I I had a pretty good that day I had a pretty good swim and then I went out way too hard on the at the start of the bike and, um, and I remember almost catching to the back end of the pros, the uh, at the start of the bike and um, and the second lap I just died. Absolutely died. And I remember crossing over with um, with Paul Lawson and I call him Prof and I’m like, “Hey, Prof., look at me. Look how good I And the next lap I was like, “Oh, yeah.” Because it’s interesting. You come back um two years later and I think in on that that debut in 2013, you you’d smack out a 322 marathon. Um you win your age group two years later and and you go sub three hours um in in in the marathon. So that that was the big sort of focus in the intervening time was just just getting that that marathon experience and and and building in in your run. Yeah. I mean that so that was um 2015 right that that I came back and um and that year I had a I had a really bad bike mechanical. You probably saw my bite time was really slow um because my pedal fell off. Yeah. So because that that evening it rained overnight quite badly and my pedals and I had the speed play pedals and they got really um stiff and because of that they weren’t rotating. The actual axle didn’t rotate. So when I pedal it unscrewed itself all the time. So um so my pedal actually fell off and I had to wait for the mechanic who had a pedal spanner and then you know and then I had to do it up really tight. Um so I lost a lot of time on the bike. Uh but I remember I was so far behind and the last I remember the last 40k of the bike just everyone was starting to come back to me. So it was a very different experience because the last 40k of the bike this time I was feeling quite strong whereas you know two years ago the last 40k of the bike I was feeling I was pretty feeling pretty sorry for myself. But um the funny thing about leading to that race was I I remember it was that me and Bever McKinnon were having a bit of a back and forth on who’s going to win and I was he was like yeah you smack talking me and smalking him a little bit and obviously he he blitzed away on the bike and I had that massive problem and um even to the point where we came out the swim that year side by side and we came running up that slope and I said to I said to him I said to him and so it begins Bevon you [Laughter] Awesome. Awesome. So, um but I put it but then obvious but then in that race he um he blitzed me on the bike and then and then he ended up cramping at the back end of the run and I caught him um with about maybe two miles to go which was uh good for me not not so good for him but I remember that day because Beon was I remember it really well because Beon was on a flyer, wasn’t he? And then he was and he was running strong and you were gaining you were gaining on that run but then yeah and we were standing at the finish line thinking okay well this you know we’re expecting to see Beavenon and then someone said no he’s he’s in the box man he’s he’s cramped really really badly and and you were right there anyway and came through to take the win. It was a heck of a day. Yeah it was good and and I um I mean that was the first time when I kind of realized I could run a marathon. Okay. You know, um, and it’s quite it’s quite funny like when I look at my career as a triathlete and I think and I suppose I mean I go riding with Cam Brown quite a lot. We ride almost every Wednesday together. We do a a gravel ride out at Pooh Hoy. You got your horrendous gravel sessions here. Yeah. Yeah. And they’re great. We always have a great yarn, you know, and he’s got some old school stories of triathlon which you know which I love. Um, but you know, we were saying we felt like it were the same. Like when I when when when when I was doing Olympic distance, I always felt like the running was my weakest and it was a real problem. But when I moved to Iron Man, it it swapped. It came the opposite. My running became my strength. And it’s oh man it’s and it’s such a nice feeling like to have the feeling of getting onto the run knowing that you’re going to hold people off versus getting onto the run knowing that it’s you’ve got a kind of a bit of a weapon inside you that you can close is um is quite a changer. There’s an old saying Dan about Iron Man being greater than the sum of its parts and you’re kind of describing that in what you’re saying that it’s not as easy as a swim bike and run. But what what is the We’d be here all day if you had to explain it technically, but you know, what do you think is probably the number one trick to being able to run well in an Iron Man race or to run at your at your best? Um, I think I think many when it comes to iron man, I often say that many many athletes underestimate the power of a good being a good swimmer. Um, and that’s not necessarily a fast swimmer, but I think like the ability to get through 3.8K 8K and it literally not even touch the sides is really important and and I think it’s often underestimated and and often you hear oh the swim is not that important for triathlon but I think the carry-on effect is absolutely huge. If you come out the swim and you’re a bit and it’s taken something out of you then you’re on your back foot immediately. So like fitness fitness in the water the ability to swim 3.8k 8K as daily bread or butter makes a massive implication as to how the whole day will unfold and I think that’s something that’s often often overlooked. Um the next thing would be um would be like specificity on the bike like you know actual time at power in the position. Um like doing very long reps you know of I would often just do 100 km time trials for example just above my iron man power like very specific. I remember Toenzo once said to me, you know, this this this ain’t a tour bus, you know, and I think people often make training entertaining. And unfortunately, it can’t be that entertaining a lot of the time. You know, it has to be long, it has to be mundane, it has to be the same, it has to be quite arduous. And I think, you know, if you’re going out there and you’re doing your your track sessions with your mates and your criteriums on a Tuesday and thinking it’s going to be improving your Iron Man performance, it’s just it’s just not. Um and then the the last the last would be if I think about the running it’s um you know I I I really believe running off the bike is is everything and it’s quite a funny area. It’s quite a contentious area because some that you get some coaches who who believe that running off the bike isn’t shouldn’t be done and some like me who think it’s it’s really it’s really everything. And I you know in the end of the day the principle of specificity is one of the main principles of training. And I would do nearly all my hard runs. I’d never do any fresh. I’d always do them under fatigue. got to always do them off the bike to the point on where really my my flat um my basic run speed if you look at my 5k time 10k times they’re not actually that quick compar comparatively to what I can do in in an IM man and I do believe it’s because I don’t I don’t get tired I just don’t fatigue at the same rate as um as many others do. So I hold my form really well. It’s fascinating that uh I think you’ve probably given us one of the greatest quotes ever on the old school try show. It’s not a tour bus. Um, no, mine is I think it actually comes from John Ackland, not not even Toenzo. So, I don’t think I don’t think um I don’t think Toenzo can take it either. We we we look at um you know, if we go through you run um 322 in 2013, you I think you’re about a 258 and 15 255 marathon in in 2017. You’re first in your age group and you broke into the top 10 overall there. Um and and and under the nine hour mark as well. So I guess um you didn’t have the mechanical issues of two years before. So that would have been a a pretty satisfying day to tick that one off. Yeah. No, no mechanical issues, but it was a lot of wind. Yeah. Yeah. Do you Can you remember that year? It was It was really really windy and it was a headwind all the way back. Um it was a horrible It was a horrible day. Yeah, it was a that was a that was a pretty that was that was I think the first time I kind of strung together a kind of a one, two, three. But I remember waking up that morning and I just heard my the shutters just banging up against the window thinking, “Oh no, here we go.” Yeah. Yeah, I remember that one too because when Brian and I staying at the staying at the motel ahead of commentary, you wake up in the morning, first thing you listen for is is waves lapping on the on the foreshore. Yeah, there was and there was definitely waves that year. It was really choppy. The water was super choppy. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Yeah. Advanced another year and and you know, gosh, you in 2017 you’d done an 854. In 2018, um, heavens above, you you now you’re you’re you’re really owning it at this stage. An 835 overall, okay, conditions and so on. Um, a course record there for age groupers. you you you’d had a really good 70.3 I think in the in the same year and and and Koner and so on as well. So so 2018 that that whole year just everything seemed to click for you at that point. Yeah. Yeah, it did. I mean for a bit of concept concept in 2017 my plan was always to go and do Kona. Yeah. Yeah. And try. So I raced Kona in 2015 and I remember I finished and I I remember very specifically saying to my dad that I really believe I can win the age group overall in Kona. Look just you know I just looked at the times and what I did that day and I had you know I was I was away with the rowing team the whole year. I had terrible build. Um so so 2017 was supposed to be the was going to be the year when I went to Kona and had a good crack. Um but fortunately for us we we had a baby girl so um so Kate was pregnant and the due date was right on the time of Kona. So and the funny thing was is that in 2017 lots of my friends knew that my aim was to go to Kona and it was like Kate was like six weeks pregnant so we didn’t we couldn’t tell anyone at that point and everyone was like why isn’t he taking his slot? What’s going on? This is you know what’s you know what’s happening. So anyway, the the funny thing what and in the end Bella my my who’s now my eldest, she was born the day of Kona. Literally the day of Kona. I remember Yeah. I was I was watching because I was coaching Torenzo then and Toenzo came six. I remember watch like we were in the um you know the newborn. Stella was the newborn just still in hospital and we were I was watching the the race on my phone seeing how Toenzo was going which is pretty cool. Um but yeah so so yeah so as a result things got shifted and then Kate when Kate my wife was like well you know you may as well you know I’ll support you to go and have another go in 2018. So you know 2018 was was a great year because I was coaching to a lot of our training together which was perfect for me. Um and then like he was on a rampage as well. He was flying so he was bringing me up. Um and I think um everything kind of clicked really really nicely because we just you know we had a great training partners, great camaraderie and you know the fitness that was built up from the last few years had kind of started to come out. So yeah and and you know we’ve talked about your marathon build and so on but that that year like in in in Toppo you I think you swam like it might have been your quickest swim. I think you’re sort of 50 or maybe a shade under 50 and so on. So that you know you talked before about the run and and and and your swim and your swim fitness and so on. That’s kind of a really nice start for the year, isn’t it? When you your your first um your first stage of an iron man and you you smack out a swim like that. Yeah. Yeah. It was great. I actually I crashed on the bike that year as well. Oh wow. Um yeah, I had a bit of a had a bit of a spill. So, and I um unfortunately I didn’t hurt myself, but I got back on and I managed to complete the complete the run. Um but that was also pre-carbon shoes as well even then because I remember I just got the carbon shoes for Kona in 2018, but I did that race in just you’re playing A6 um trainers. So um would have been the run would have probably been a little bit quicker because the shoes do make a difference. Yeah, they they do. They make a heck of a difference. One of the, you know, and it’s interesting, you know, sorry, Brian, I just on a side note, innovations in sport, I mean, you’d know all about them, but that’s been one heck of an innovation in the last period of time, isn’t it? The carbon shoes. Yeah, it’s huge. I mean, depending on the athlete, I think I was talking to a friend, a friend the other day, um, Peak Fit Singer, who you don’t know if you know who Singer is. Yeah. So, he lives just at the road. we bump into each other. We were talking about carbon shoes and I think they make a bit of a big of a difference to the heavier athletes. I think if you’re a smaller, lighter, more efficient runner, they probably make a bit less of a difference. But for triathletes who are generally heavier, um they make a huge difference. Yeah, for sure. You’re talking 5 to 10 seconds a cape, you know, perhaps. Wow. Tell us about your Kona build that year. you know, you you’d had a a superb um a superb race in in Toppo, an age group record there, and you were you were ninth overall. You go to Kona and um you’re even quicker in Kona than you you were. Okay, different courses and all all those things, but what a what a remarkable day. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that day was um you know I was very fortunate with that day in Kona because I think you know three things came together very nicely is that you know I was I was exceptionally fit. I was probably the fittest I’ve ever been in my life. Um the I had an amazing day like you know when you just on like and you just kind of you’re just feeling I felt I just felt amazing the whole day and it was a very favorable day for Kona so it was a very fast the it was a fast year. So um yeah I mean I never I never expected to go as quick as that to be honest. Um I just remember um I always remember that when you know you set out on the run and I remember running back along the Queen K and by that point everyone’s dying normally, right? And and and I was like and I knew I had a 10-minute lead and I was um and I kept running under four minute Ks all the time, even at that point. And I I remember I ran down one bit and I did a 345k and this was like 9k to go and I was and I was like um oh you should slow down you know just slow down you got it done now just one more k just do one more kum but then but then finally the last bit you get along the queen can got a little uphill to the palani and I ran up that hill and then that that by then that that got me then I you know that by that point you just have to run down palani and round but um yeah I mean I I would never If someone had said to me that you’d run you can run a 250 in Kona, that would have blown my mind. I just Yeah. I still to this day don’t know how I managed to pull that out. Really guessing you’re a bit of a nutrition ninja based on that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, depends who you ask. Yeah. I mean I mean I think I’m known for my kind of lesser carb approach to to nutrition. Um, I mean, even on that on that run, I took one gel, 50 grams of carbs per hour on the bike. So, um, which I think, you know, I think that’s one of the reasons I went so well because the the stress of the heat really affects your carbohydrate oxidation. So, I think it plays into your hands if you’re a bit of a better fat burner, the hotter it gets. Um I also just I do believe that there’s some sort of um chronic adaptation that goes on from living in Singapore for four years. You know, living in Southeast Asia for four years, I’m I’m generally quite good in the heat. So um you know, still to this day, I’m I can I can jump off the road. I mean, I went I took a group of my athletes to Kona last year on a training camp and I can jump off the plane and I’m almost fine within a day. So, you know, and I don’t you know, I don’t I don’t have a massively high sweat rate either. So there’s a few things that play into my favor, but um yeah, pretty I mean the Kona Kona was pretty awesome, I have to say. And thankfully the record still stands. So yeah. Yeah. That record will acknowledge that 824 36. So that’s that’s incredible. And Conan, well done. It’s it’s unbelievable. And and what’s it like to know when you’re you’re at the front of the age group race and not just at the front like you’re dominating the race and to think to yourself, I’m feeling pretty good just like you saying before, just one more K. One more K. You’re running so well. You’re almost at the end, I guess, to be at on the world’s biggest Iron Man stage and have the race come together. I mean, that’s pretty special, isn’t it? Yeah, it is. It’s funny. I mention like it’s um Yeah. I mean, the feelings don’t get any better than that, you know? It’s like it’s it’s one of those things where you you you know you have the experience when you really build towards a goal and you achieve the goal and you like you when you wake up the next morning there’s like a small like window of about 3 seconds where you can’t remember whether it’s a dream or it’s true you know like that’s that’s when you know you’ve really achieved something or you’ve done something that you really really striving towards and you know I remember very specifically ly waking up in Koda the next morning and having having that feeling. Yeah. And it was my daughter’s first birthday the next day. So there you go. It was a year off. So magic. Absolute magic. There’s a bit of a sort of a gap um I guess between Iron Man’s after that point. We’ve got all sorts of things going on. I guess life’s getting in the way for you a wee bit maybe. Um and and business and and co and and and all of those things. But um let’s fast forward to 2022 and uh co year and um Iron Man New Zealand is is at the uncustomarily is at the back end of the year because of CO and the whole dynamic of the day is a whole lot different. Um the pros aren’t there and and also the weather is an absolute shocker. It was a bitterly cold, freezing, miserable day. What are your memories of that day? Yeah, well I remember I still got sunburn on that day somehow. I do remember must know exactly but I um yeah I mean I remember uh because because really after Coner in 2018 I I I kind of had plans to stop racing. So I didn’t really actively pursue it. I grew my own business you know I join I grew in IQ. I got more heavily into the coaching and still carried on with my academic work and you know and things things were quite busy. Um, and then I turned 40 and then Chelsea won Iron Man Kona in October and I turned 40 and I was like, “Oh, you know what? Do you” And there was this there was a little bit inside me that was like, um, I’ve never really done an Iron Man on a fast course. So, I wanted to kind of tick that box a little bit is to try and do a very fast time like, you know, and survey hours was the goal. Um, so that’s why I came back really because I I felt like this real urge to before my time was up so to speak, you know, and I was too old to do it. Um, was to try and do a very fast Iron Man time and and I managed to get an entry into Iron Man New Zealand. Um, and so I had a really short build into that race. I was I only really trained for eight weeks. Um, but obviously, you know, I was already quite fit anyway. It’s not like I was doing nothing at all, but I wasn’t doing anything very specific around diamond. I was still swimming three times a week and running and cycling, but I wasn’t really very dialed with my training. So, I did, you know, an 8week an 8week block. And um and I remember um I just remember that morning being studying is it Jolly Good Fellows, the little pub by the race start and just absolutely pouring with rain. I was thinking, “Oh no, this is going to be Wish I was doing the 70.3 right now and not the full. But you know what? It wasn’t it wasn’t actually that bad. I remember thankfully it didn’t it rained a bit on the bike but it wasn’t crazy bad. Um but on the run there was some periods of time where it absolutely really rained very hard. But there was also periods of time when it was really hot. There was like there was periods where it was mega humid. I remember running along the waterfront and just being being really really really cooking. So, um but yeah, I was very sore after that race. I I wasn’t I just wasn’t fit enough to really to really cope. Um but it was um I mean I think I’m I count my blessings because I was very fortunate to be able to win Bman New Zealand and take the tape, right? And then that was probably the only one time I would ever get to do it with being an age group only race. So it’s was pretty cool. One thing I do remember from that day, one thing I do remember from that day is uh the lightning and we uh wasn’t lost on Brian on the soul for the rest of the commentary team that we’re standing in aluminium scaffold towers following everyone down for the towers. It was a big day. It was a big day. Yeah, it was it was I remember I remember that day because I was chasing I was in second the whole time on the bike chasing there was the one guy was out in like the winner the leader was out in like 47 minutes and I Yeah. And I remember like coming around the first lap and I was biking quite well and my dad gave me a time gap and I had hardly closed on him. I was like, “What is going on?” Like um but thankfully he died on the second lap so I managed to even split it. So yeah. Yeah. Pretty memorable day that one certainly on on a whole lot of different levels. um um obviously the win for you but also the conditions that everyone dealt with and you you alluded to wanting to get on to a fast course and so you get this Iron Man under your belt with a win and uh in 2023 it’s to California you found your fast course and oh my how you took advantage of that. Um yeah, unbelievable the sub 8 hour um as an amateur. Unbelievable. The um so so the journey actually went in 2022. My the original was um my original aim was to do challenge Roth which I did do. I did challenge Roth but about four weeks before I got a really bad Achilles injury and I I couldn’t run at all. Um so I lost I lost a lot of fitness leading into the the race. Um I managed to start running a week before. Um, and and I remember when I did start running, I had horrendous doms all the time. So, I actually started the race with really sore legs already. Um, I mean, I still ran a 250, but but not um but I it wasn’t the day that I wanted it to be. And and at that point when I finished that race, I thought, “Oh, well, that’s that done and dusted. That’s not happening anymore.” But then, you know, you just recalibrate and reset and I thought, well, what’s another six weeks or another eight weeks of training to and try and find try and find a fast course. So, you know, I searched around um one of my IQ coaches suggested that California was a would be a good one to look at as a fast course. Um and yeah, and that’s the one that’s the one I chose. And thankfully, I had a you know, I had a great day there. I mean, I wouldn’t say that was a a it wasn’t like the perfect day like I would say Kona in 2018 was almost it was almost perfection. I don’t think not any athlete who’s watching or listening to this to actually have a race and go I couldn’t really do anything any different on that day is almost impossible. But that Kona in 2018 for me was almost that day, you know, I couldn’t ask for anything different. But there was a few things in California that were that weren’t ideal. Um, one is it absolutely poured with rain. Like really badly poured with rain. Um, like you wouldn’t believe it. Like way worse than way worse than it was in New Zealand. The rivers the the the the roads were river rivers. But um but yeah, that was another I had another great day there. And my last 10k of the run was my fastest 10k as well. So I kind of kind of built into it. That was pretty special. And what was it like when you you would have been getting time splits around there Dan around Iron Man California and as you’re heading through the run and thinking gee whiz eight hours is on here. Did that enter your head at what at what point did that come into your head that g I could go eight hours here? Yeah, you kind of know because you know you swim split. you know, you buy time, right? And you’re kind of doing the math in your head. And and um cuz I was staying with Chelsea Sedara, so she was we were staying and she was watching. Um and I went past her. I said, “What time do I have to run to to run a 250? What time do I have to run to get to eight hours?” And she kind of did some maths and she said, “You have to run in the 250.” So I was like, “Right, okay.” You know, and I just kind of worked away worked away with that. So and the run was actually long as well, unfortunately. Yeah, it was uh it was 42.8. Wow. Yeah. But I still still made it. I could imagine the um people on the finish line, the officials and everything. I mean, they would have known you’re legitimate, right? You’re going through the timing mats and everything, but it would have been a lot of people have blown minds at that time up on the clock at the finish line. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I mean, it’s always nice. I think I’m always I’m a bit of a goal setter, you know, and then when I when I have those goals in my head and I think it, you know, my wife probably annoys my wife a little bit to some extent that I’m just very pigheaded with it when I get when I have that little when I have that goal in my head. I’ll really go after it. So, um, so you know, and that was kind of always the aim of 2022 when you’re sorry, I was just going to say Brian, sorry, real quick, is when when, um, when you when you’re at the front end of these, and I guess it doesn’t matter where you are in a in a group, um, when you’re when you’re racing, but we all go through good patches and and patches that aren’t great. And you’re saying earlier that you seem to be able to go at a high consistent level for a long time, but what do you do if you’re thinking to yourself, gee whiz, I’m not going through the greatest patch here, or does that not really happen to you? like how do you recover out of a out of a patch that isn’t great and still stay at the top? Yeah, I mean I think I think I mean I always talk to with the athletes that I coach I do believe that there’s certain periods in an Iron Man they’re always the hardest and I think they’re different for different people but for me like like you know the the last 40k of the bike would be always where I would pay my most attention you know because that was always I felt that was always the hardest bit. So, I would almost purposely focus on the last 40k of the bike and almost try and say, “Okay, hold your bel yourself back until you got 40k to go and then give it a good nudge.” You know, you can just step in it a little bit more. And and I find that’s quite a good race tactic as well because if you’re if like I would always I would often do the most power in the last 40k um as a result of that because I would always try and hold back. But I think if you as an athlete, if you can earmark the bits where you know you’re going to find it harder and almost make them your focal point, that’s always great. And like um and on the marathon, for example, the hardest bit for me was like 20 to 30k was always that’s a real struggle because there’s something about with getting with, you know, getting 10k to the finish. I mean, how many 10k training runs have you done? You know, it’s something there’s something mental that’s about that’s easy about that. But when you’re over halfway, you’re really tired and you think, “Oh my god, I’ve got to do that again and like that 20.” But once you get to once you get to I always was think once I get to 30 or 32k, I was I’ll be okay. But it’s just so I almost purposely focus on those points. But yeah, you also have to know that everything comes believe that everything is in ups and downs in in Iron Man. You know, you sometimes you you do feel good, you feel bad. It’s just you have to just go with the flow. The trick is to not let the bads think you’re not the bad the bad points. You can’t let them take you take you on a spiral. Right. Nerd question here. When you do the did the um 756 in in California, where did you place overall that day uh in in in the field? It was an age group only race. Oh, it was age group only. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I won by 23 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Heaps. You must have the other guys, the other people in your age group must be going, “Oh, geez, Dan Flu is turning up.” Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I never Yeah. I always had the aim of winning age groups overall, you know. I never really thought about I think that’s the way you have to work it as well. I think you like any in goal setting like if you if you aim to be in the top three, you’re going to get fifth. If you aim to win, you’re going to get third. You know, you got to aim to do more than you you’re wanting to actually do. I mean, Gordon Walker taught me taught me this. He said that, you know, when it comes to like the women’s K4, like you know, they every time they would aim to get on the podium, they’d be fifth. You have to aim for more than that. You have to aim to if you want to win, okay, win by how much? How much you want to win by? You know, you can’t say I just want to win because if your only aim is winning, you’ll come third. And I think that’s a and that’s always the mindset that I’ve always had. I’ve never aimed to like win my age group in the 40 44. I’m like, “No, I want to win all age groups, you know, and that’s kind of I think it’s I think you’ve got to you got to shoot a bit higher than what you’re actually aiming for, then you’ll probably end up in the right place.” It must be incredibly inspiring for you and your professional capacity, but also you become good mates with a lot of these people. being associated with people like the know the New Zealand women’s kayaking team Dame Lisa Carrington and her colleagues people like Thorenzo Bazone people like Chelsea Sedaro I mean it must be incredibly inspiring to be able to just work with them but also you know it must be also amazing looking at the mindsets of champions as to what makes them that bit better than the rest. Yeah. And I think so and and I think that’s something that you know I think when you look at all champions they’re they’re not they’re mainly I mean obviously everyone is a bit ego ego driven you know ego you know e ego orientated versus task orientated goals. So ego is like I want to win a gold medal whereas task orientated is more I want to improve this or this. And I think nearly all of those people you mentioned, they’re very they’re main they obviously want to win but everything’s driven by more task orientated goals and they they have they have a lot of control over what they have control over particularly when it comes you know so that’s like just the very small things of going to bed on time your nutrition you know doing all those small things right I think because I think often as athletes you get you can get too I mean a lot amateur athletes they get too caught up on the things that they they have no control over a lot of the time. It’s like, oh, you know, I’m not genetically good enough or I haven’t been doing this for long enough or, you know, I I didn’t swim when I was younger. These things that you can’t change. Um, and I think you can get too caught up on that and and uh the athletes who I work with or have had the privilege of being around and they just look at the small things that you can you can change to make the difference. And I think that’s in the end it does make a it makes a massive difference. And it’s the it’s the long game in these things. It’s not the short game, not short game. And one of my favorite quotes is that people always they overestimate what they can do in the short term and they underestimate what they can do in the long term, you know. And that’s that is triathlon. That is triathlon training. You got to take think of a long-term goal. And even, you know, when I did what I did in 2018, I’ve been doing triathon since I was nine. And I actually set that goal in 2015, three years earlier. So you think about how that how that looks. It’s it’s you got to play the um you definitely got to play more of the long game. We’ve talked, you know, a lot about your athletic career and and and you’ve mentioned names like um Chelsea Sedaro and Toenzo, but gosh um the other people you’ve worked with, Javier Gomez, the Van Burkels and so on. you seem to be able to collect some some remarkable people from within the sport that that we love. So just is has that just been through through you know great networking as you you’ve traveled around the the world and and and met these people and so on. How have some of those sort of relationships form? Yeah, I mean I’m very fortunate. I mean and that’s, you know, I think as New Zealanders, you know, they’ve got the Mah Dragals, the Eric Murray, the Hamish Bonds as well, who have done a lot of work within the rowing sphere, Emirates team New Zealand, Blair Chuke, Peter Burling, you know, I’ve done I’ve worked with them as well. And so I’m pretty privileged when I look at my what I’ve worked with in terms of New Zealand sport is is pretty amazing. But like, you know, I I don’t I don’t hunt these people out. I think generally they just they find you and I I don’t believe in um as a coach I’ve never once approached an athlete ever. Um I don’t think that’s ever a good starting point. I think like for because a coach athlete relationship is at the end of the day you’re the boss, right? So they have to they have to want to listen to what you have to say. And if you’re the one who’s going to find them, it’s I I believe that’s always starting in the the wrong side of how the relationship should work. So um so yeah, it’s been it’s been I’ve been really fortunate to you know, I think I’ve obviously gained a lot from working around these these types of people, too. Where do you see the sport sort of going, Dan? just, you know, we’re seeing people now going sub 730 in in Iron Man um Chelsea. Unbelievable performance at Iron Man New Zealand a year or two ago. There was a time even in in Toppo where um we never thought we’d see anyone go under eight hours, but it’s almost become routine in the right conditions now. Um yeah, where do you sort of see the sport not necessarily landing, but but yeah, just just how fast can it get? Yeah, I think things will calm down. I think um like the the jump from COVID to now is a bit is a lot like I don’t think we’ll see that again. It’s almost crazy crazy a lot. Um but I think like who knows why that is. I think innovation will probably play pay play a part in that for sure with the you know the aerodynamics and and whatnot. But I think like I don’t think we’re going to see the point in time where we’re going to see people continuously under seven hours for example. That’s just not going to happen. But I think it’s just going to get tighter at the top and you’re probably going to have a lot of people all finishing with it because it won’t. What happens in sport is that it goes to a certain point and then everything gets tight and now the next point the evolution of the sport will be you’re going to have about 20 guys between 7:30 and 740. You know that’s what’s going to happen. I mean and it’s crazy. I mean, look at Iron Man Texas that happened two weeks ago. New Zealand’s Matt Kerr. He went 757, 756 and came 15th. Yeah. 15th. Yeah. It’s like I mean, and a great race for him, an amazing race, but like to get 15th at that, it’s like you’re not even in the prize money, you know? I mean, this is this is the level of the level now. So it’s um when you got when you got people like who are running like 335s minute minutes per kilometers after cycling close after cycling 45 km an hour it’s mindboggling. Yeah it is. So so what’s yeah you talk about goal setting. What’s the what’s the current goal for you Dan? Um well so I mean since I’ve actually started doing Hyrox now so um so yeah and I’m quite enjoying that. So, those who don’t know, Hierrox is like running with a fitness station and I mean I’m I’m always a bit of a competitor and I like I like to compete and the main thing is I I really enjoy the active lifestyle. So, you know, training and training for a goal is is is kind of how I have that in place and I feel like everything else can circle well, you know, kind of that’s the what gives me a lot of momentum in life is that if I don’t have that, I don’t really feel like other things work that well. So, um, so yeah, so I’m heading to the, um, Highs World Champs 14th of June. So, I’m training pretty hard for that at the moment, which has been great. You know, I had to get a bit stronger, put on a bit of weight, um, which has been nice. Uh, and, uh, yeah, I looked at a picture of me the other day of when I was in my prime for Iron Man. I couldn’t believe how I look like a a little school boy, so small. Um, but yeah, it’s been it’s been good and I think it’s been a good change like getting a bit older, getting a bit stronger. You know, it still has a a huge endurance component because there’s eight there’s 8.7 kmters of running in it. So, you still have to run pretty good. There’s ski urg, there’s rowing, so you know, there’s still a lot of endurance involved. Um, so I’m aiming to hopefully win my age group at the highs world champs. That’ll be the aim. Fantastic. Well, Dan, um, it looks as though, you know, look, you’re never going to you’re never going to sit still, and I’m not sure whether it’s sitting still or keeping your brain ticking over that keeps you motivated, but it’s it’s probably a combination of both. But look, we’re we’re incredibly grateful for your um insights that you’ve given us today uh on the old school try show. Thank you for joining us and all the very best with Hy Rocks and the World Championships. Thanks for thanks for having me on. It’s been a blast. 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The 2022 version of @IronmanNewZealand was unique for many reasons, due to Covid restrictions it was delayed until later in the year, it was Mike Reilly’s last call in New Zealand and there was no professional field.
However, the racing was just as exciting as every other edition.
Join Cam and Brian as we chat with the male winner of the 2022 edition of IMNZ, Dan Plews
