Is firing Mike Sullivan the best move?
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38 Comments
I've never been a fire Sullivan (or Tomlin) guy. Both are great coaches. In Sully's case, he seems to have lost the room. If coaches have a shelf life and FSG refuses to fire Sully, don't you need to completely overhaul the roster so that the guys in the room aren't stale to his message and actually fit his system? That requires young and fast guys. I'm not sure how much longer I can subject myself to the torture of watching this team.
The team is gutless, except Crosby.
I know thats harsh. Any team when they are going through a rough patch will have some push back. I am not saying go out and pick a fight BUT every single game has moments when the tempers flare… do something, spark the team, show everyone you care. And dont let Crosby be that person. Boko would as would other players of his ilk. Id try getting someone like that or bringing him up and see if he can bring energy with hits or if needed a fight or two.
long overdue.
Fire Sullivan
this team soff
What are they waiting for? Every other team would have made the change by now.
Is it genuinely possible at this point to have Sullivan even truly be on the hotseat with Dubas and this ownership group, DK?
Do you think Dubas really supports Sully as much as he says he does publically?
I truly worry there's not much that can happen in terms of Sullivan's heat getting hot. There's got to be something more to this ownership group and Sullivan. Almost seems like a deep personal connection with someone within the ownership group. I don't understand how he has seemingly dodged all criticism within the front office.
I think ownership and Dubas both were prepared for a season like this. And worry that they will continue to blame the roster. That they chalk all of this up to this "rebuild on the fly type mindset".
I don't know. It feels hopeless at this point its even in the realm of possibility.
Not sure how much I can take watching Neito, Acciari, Hayes playing a significant amount more of minutes than the Jessey P, DOC, Poulion/Ponomarov line.
The other night, I believe the minute breakdown was 19 minutes for the Accriari line & 8 minutes for the DOC line…
This clear cut favortism to old, "defensive first" minded veterans getting so much ice time makes me sick to my stomach.
This is a 180 degree change in philosophy from 2016-2018.
You saw all vets being scratched/benched/buried early in Sully's tenure… my favorite thing about Sully at that time was, he was always willing to put a younger guy with upside in the lineup over a vet past his prime.
He preferred having the upside of a guy on an entry level contract over these veterans. Which I think at the time and right now. Should largely be every organization's philosophy. Especially as this league continues to move younger & faster and more willing to give young guy's, even undersized young guys a legit shot early in their career.
Thats what people dont talk about w the back to back cup runs. It was the Mooseknucle (that I loved calling him), the Wilson's with Cullen centering them that really made that team complete.
Idk miss the Sully who had the balls of steel, burning an entire year of Maata's entry level contract.
The guy who punted on the "grit" idea, that the bottom 6 has to have your gritty veterans filling it up.
There was 0 need for grit for that team. He wanted to be young and fast. And be devastating on that counter attack. He hoped that the other team would engage in grittiness non sense, as it led to more powerplays and ability for the Pens to just continously roll their 4 lines like a well oiled machine.
That counter attack was DEADLY. And it was due to the fact, we had that youth insurgence & that speed from young guys in role playing positions.
This Sully… that WOULD NEVER happen today. He'd never do any of these things now a days.
Sully is not the coach you want leading a young roster… he's seemingly past the expiration date of that philosophy. That ship has sailed as early as 2019-2020
As they say…. You can't fire the team so fire the coach!
For me it's less about a new coach fixing everything instantly, it's more about not seeing things like AHL defense on the first pairing and powerplay. Not to mention the ever growing list of young players that make it out of pittsburgh and do something with the opportunity.
Sullivan seems to favor veteran players over rookies. That prevents the rookies from developing. Other teams don't hesitate using rookies.
i do not want coach fired but if the jackles have their way , Id suggest pens hire mark recchi the pens will still be bad but at least recchi will get some head coaching experience and maybe a 100% effort hall of fame player can get some positive results !
Isn't it obvious this team is tanking? The proof is on the ice. Sully's doing a fine job, in helping to secure a top three pick. Perhaps this is why Sid took so long to resign? Dubas told him from the beginning that they were gonna tank and Sid had to really think about it.
6:23 …DK, first i love your takes on like 98% of your football and hockey stuff. However, here u say " If anyone thinks that everything's going to change…"
DK, our last three Stanley Cups have been won "after" a mid-season coaching change. So as a fan base we do have reason and past experience that give us reasonable belief that a mid-season coaching change COULD change everything. I remember a great line from the 2009 Stanley Cup Champs Video, I believe from 29er, "it's alot easier to change one person than a whole team"…bye Therrien, hello Bylsma and Cup. Bye Johnson, hello Sullivan and two cups. Same def could happen here with this crew.
This is the line of thinking that let this go this far. "Well firing him won't do anything anyway so why even do it??"
Maybe because we have to see what happens and we really don't know what would happen. We also don't want Sullivan in charge of a rebuild in any form. Sully and young players? Nope.
The Capitals had a dreadful team in the same exact scenario and brought in a new coach that makes that team compete.
Can't believe there's a question mark in the title
it seems like only in Pittsburgh do unperforming coaches get to keep their jobs….Sully, Tomlin, and Shelton. All should be gone but here we are
I would fire Sullivan mostly because I think the Pens need more of a developmental head coach to transition them into the next generation. That being said … I would not give the players a pass for quitting, and I definitely do not give Dubas a pass for being the worst GM in hockey. I guess if we really want to point a finger … point it at FSG because they have created this whole mess from top to bottom.
It’s not about the fact that firing Sullivan is not a panacea. I think people are realistic about what this team and roster is. The issue we have is not necessarily the losses, but how they lose. The lack of will, the lack of compete, the lack of caring is what drives people nuts about this team. Then you will argue that the roster is flawed. Yes, it is, no doubt, but defending hard and trying to compete does not require skill. The lack of work ethic is what needs to change.
If the offense is bad, the defense is bad, and the goaltending is bad…then it's the GM's fault for putting together a bad team, not the coach's fault for coaching a bad team.
I think firing Sullivan would have the Jake Guentzel trade effect on the team.
He needs to go mike sullivan is so bad
Thank you DK, I just hope they solve this defensive problem sooner than later. Great show DK
It needs to come from Sid. Sid needs to rip these players on a new one. And Ned isn't the answer behind the net..
Hard times to be a Pens fan. It will be a very long time before this team is competitive again, 5 years if we get lucky, considering I have no faith in Dubas I’m thinking more like decades. For someone who became a fan in 1991 during the first Stanley cup run this is gonna be really hard, we got lucky with Sid and Geno, the rebuild could be much longer this time.😔
I wouldn't mind finding out if Sullivan being replaced would help. If they had a chance of being a wild card maybe I'd say keep the coach but that's not the case. I hope it happens in the offseason at least
This is what happens when you are victims of Hextall/Burke followed up by Dubas. You get a really crappy team overall and bad contracts. You cant fire FSG for this or fire all the players, so you fire the head coach and/or Dubas,…I suspect they will have to fire Sullivan now and Dubas at seasons end..I see lots of empty seats at home games now and that drives decisions. I have no idea what will become of 'the core' after this disaster of a season.
Good luck getting ANY coach to get this group of skaters to turn into an actual team. Besides Sid, Ned and Blomqvist, no one even cares.
The fact that no coach in the history of organized sport could get anything out of the useless waste of oxygen that Erik Karlsson is is the worst possible argument for keeping on a bad coach! My grandmother could have coached the Penguins to those 2 Stanley Cups in '16 and '17, so don't give me any of that crap about Sullivan's so-called legacy! At that time, Sid and Geno were both still in their prime and simply would not be denied! They didn't need ANY coach to win in those years! Sullivan's only legacy is the clown show of the last 3 seasons!
As for Erik Karlsson, he's a disgrace to hockey itself—and most certainly to the Norris Trophy! He never should have won it once! The voters that bestow that award are out of their collective minds! He never played one shift of defence in any of those 3 seasons that he was handed that now meaningless hardware! I don't care if he got 1000 points in a season! He never deserved that trophy once! And when the clowns that run the Hockey Hall of Fame eventually enshrine him there, they'll devalue that honour just as much! The only admittance that that guy should ever have to the HHoF is with a paid-in-full ticket! What an absolute joke that "player" is!!!!!
Sully is coachin his way to a lottery pic.
Nope. The construction is terrible. Need a GM first.
I guess FSG doesn't mind the dwindling attendance lately. And just 3 sellouts so far.
Obviously Sullivan is incredibly important to the Penguins franchise. But it is absolutely asinine that he continues to be employed. The way that Dubas, FSG, and the media are with him is absolutely maddening. It is souring the legacy at this point.
This shouldn't even be that hard of a question, he is years past his shelf life get him the fuck out of here. I am done with him and seeing the play I'd say the players are too. He should've been fired after benching McCann in the bubble. Or not winning a series since 2018 and not making the playoffs for the first time in 16 years.
I think you present a poor complacent argument. Well our team is washed so let's just keep it as is. We have so many problems so let's just keep Sullivan. What kind of argument is that? How many different rosters (i.e chances) has he gotten and we're supposed to think he deserves to be here still? This season is a wash but a change behind the bench is long overdue. Remember when he was hired and things completely changed for this team? So yes actually I'd say that a new coach could definitely get more out of this roster. Will it make us contenders? No. But getting blown out at home, blowing leads, Crosby fighting cause no one else cares is simply embarrassing. And you'd be lying to yourself if these were new problems. The boys club has completely taken over, this is a business. We need a culture change and yes that comes first with a new coach.
The only argument I'd see is if the team came out and said "we are entering a rebuild" then yeah keep it as is so we can be 32nd or 31st and get lottery picks. But Dubas says the opposite. Even today he trades a pick for a player. He should not be here for the rebuild and why would we want him? He's complacent and "comfortable" here why would he want to adapt and change? From Yohe's interview, "playing a style I'm comfortable with" man how times have changed, he used to be such an open and adaptable coach. No we are accepting an absolute disgrace of a team. It's not about being contenders anymore that ship has all but sailed but about the product on the ice. A lifeless team and a silent locker room. But yeah DK let's just keep it as is 🙂 "if it happens I'd accept it" is such a yellowbellied cop out. This in no way excuses the terrible play of the players but when all you can say as a coach after every single game is "I thought we played well" now it's "we just have to get back to our game" fuck off. He's got no answers. Get Michael Sullivan the fuck out of Pittsburgh.
To answer the question YES, I mean how much more of this crap is it going to take? And does Sully ever look like a sneering young Bill Belichick in that photo goodness gracious.
Why is Matt Grzelcyk so bad. When he was with the Bruins, he played with McAvoy and was one of the best d man pairings in the league 5 on 5. Its like he forgot how to play hockey
There was a fire Sullivan chant starting on Saturday
What is the direction for the team? Kyle Dubas wants NHL ready players in return in trades and obviously this is for Sid to push for the playoffs, but that is not going to be the case with how this team has played so far. What can really be done because this team is abysmal. At this point is building through the draft the only option left?
Absolutely should fire him. Let him have a chance to win somewhere else. This team sucks and he’s wasting away there . Just like 87 is.
Firing him won't help. Do it if you want but it's obviously not the number one issue. Just take your lumps. It was inevitable.