The Sabre Roundtable: Episode 77 – RYAN MCLEOD IS A BUFFALO SABRE

The Sabre Roundtable: Episode 77 – RYAN MCLEOD IS A BUFFALO SABRE

[Music] well well well they said it couldn’t be done do you believe in miracles yes the Buffalo Sabers made a trade today an actual trade a legit trade that sent shock waves through the NHL I I I don’t know what to I’m I’m I’m actually still kind of shocked by it I’m shocked that it happened just randomly on a Friday at 5:00 yeah I I was too right before arbit ation deals or arbitration decisions yeah files were due like it was like I was just you know at work after 4th of July then all of a sudden it’s Sabers news left and right for the last hour of my day I’m like okay I’ll I’ll take it I’ll take it it’s been a long time coming we deserve this uh it’s been a very very um depressing and a very bad time to be on the Bird app as a Sabers fan and actually funny story so I was thinking to myself I’m like you know I think it would be funny if I just went on the main account and just tweeted like hey say something you’re excited about heading into next season just spread some positivity and I go on to the app and I kid you not I scroll up and at the top of my Twitter timeline three seconds go from Elliot fredman Ryan Ed Ryan McLoud is being traded from Edmonton to Buffalo and I was like oh well can’t do that yeah the hockey Gods want didn’t want you to do that clearly they stepped in they stepped in but it’s about time it’s about time that something something was injected to this roster to at the very least make it better now because at the very least I think we can all agree that the Savers right now are a better hockey team than they were when we all woke up this morning 100% this team this move makes us a lot better in many different ways um and it’s just I I think all of us can at least feel a lot better I mean this morning um I’m assuming a lot of people saw J Fresh’s standing predictions where we were projected for what 82 points 82 points yeah and we were like oh my God like it’s really not going to change and we could all feel a lot better about how the roster looks today before we go any further into dissecting this trade welcome back to this emergency edition of the saber Round Table my name is Jonah and I’m JP and as always we’ll be talking to you about all things Buffalo Sabers hockey and today that has to do with the Ryan McLoud trade to the Buffalo Savers no Christian today unfortunately he’s out of town he was driving um he sent us his thoughts on the deal or at least his own personalized thoughts on the fan base’s reaction to the deal but I can’t share that it got um I’m sure you can assume why his his rhetoric towards the fan base uh wasn’t PG it was not PG so we’ll keep that in the vault but we’ll JP and I are G to get into it here because a lot of this trade has to do with how I mean it’s like I said it sent shock waves through the NHL we’re basically in a cottage season meaning the offseason is basically about to come to a halt I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the last big move before um the NHL kind of slows down but I could be wrong um but like Pier LeBron tweeted the other night that you know from his Cottage thanking everybody for a great season and at that moment we’re all like well that settles that looks like the the Sabres are done for the summer I know Kevin had a cook he was like I’m not done we thank the fan that screamed at him yesterday that was that was all you clear hope you’re listening that was all you good job motivated Kevin to get a trade done if it wasn’t for that Ryan McLoud would not be a saber yeah we could uh we could quickly touch on that if we want um Joe and I were actually at the the three on three tournament yesterday um we a tweet anything nothing too crazy um but it was cool I was we were surprised on how many people there actually were yeah it was Prett packed Prett pack I mean it was I know it was a holiday but I don’t think I didn’t think this you know the city was in any mood to go watch some prospects especially considering none of the big guns were really there besides helenius and like Victor Nev but good experience good always fun to go to those things it was cool so yeah back to the trade so to get right into it the Buffalo Sabers acquire forward Ryan McLoud and forward Tyler Tulio from the Minon Oilers for Prospect Matthew seavoy give me your initial thoughts and upon seeing that deal JP my initial thoughts were well this seems like a little bit an of an overpayment but IT addresses a need um and it fills our roster right now um I we were literally talking this morning um about Ellers and which Prospect we’d rather trade and I said how I value seavoy highly but I think he’s the one to go um he’s kind of redundant in our um our Prospect Pipeline and our roster right now and he’s another small forward and Benson is already like our small forward on the team so I wasn’t surprised at all that seavoy was probably the prospect that they were shopping around this entire time um so I really wasn’t too surprised that that did end up being the package um I was initially shocked but I think it’s I think it’s a good move um and then as you know we Dove di as we Dove deeper into it and saw some of the analytics made me feel even better about it yeah it when it first when I first saw it you know you of course I know who Ryan McLoud is I knew I knew in my mind I’m like okay yeah like he’s a solid player um but I didn’t know right off the top I’m like H is he the one that there was kind of question marks about just because he got he got a lot of time with dry cidal or was that full goal I couldn’t really remember but then yeah you know digging into it looking at some of the advanced numbers like this is a good player and he spent a lot of time away from Conor McDavid and Leon dry Sidle now he would he would get thrown onto the the wing with Ryle uh every now and I think he got he was on there during the the playoffs I think I think when they were down 3 0 they threw him up there just to get a different look yep but no this is a guy like this is their third line Center like for the for this for the Edmonton Oilers that got to game seven of the Stanley Cup finals this was their guy to take on the uh the lower of the lineup assignments now I know they were playing McDavid and dry Sidle like 30 minutes a night but this was the guy they trusted with those other minutes and for the most part he won those minutes I’ll give credit to uhb bombs on Twitter and he tweeted Ryan McLoud in 1367 minutes without Conor McDavid Leon dry cidal and Evan Bard at 5v5 for the past three years he’s got a goal four percentage of 54% a Cory 4 percentage of 51% and an expected goal share of 53% and this is an Edmonton fan at the end of the Tweet he says you absolutely do not trade a 23-year-old player who can do that at 5v5 away from our best players I mean think about it from Edmonton’s point of view like this was this has been their problem the last few years like when Conor McDavid and Leon dreidle come off the ice they don’t have much but they did have Ryan they did have Ryan McLoud now as we’ll get into he’s not a scorer and that’s kind of the reason their bottom six struggled they really didn’t have those in the bottom in the bottom of their lineup but for a team like the Sabres who desperately desperately desperately needed a third line center with more two-way upside than what someone like Casey middle stack could provide it’s a I guess I’ll hesitate to call it a slam dunk Edition but it’s it’s a no doubt like you do that you have to do that and it’s funny when the when the trade first broke because there were because all that Elliot Freedman sent out was Ryan McLoud is headed from Edmonton to Buffalo and I was seeing Edmonton fans being like what like what are we like what are we doing and then when they saw they got seavoy you know the narrative quickly shifted into oh my God we got one of the top prospects in the NHL for a third line Center but they know like he’s a good player for them and has been and uh from what I was reading he’s a little frustrating at times it he it seems like he’s one of those guys that there it always they always felt like there was more to pull out of him um but he just was never able to put it together but they were upset to see him go at first and until they got hooked on to the return yeah and that’s what reaffirmed me the most as I looked at moru I mean he’s the third line he was the third line Center on the Stanley Cup runner-ups who made it to a game seven and not only that he’s like one of the best penalty killers in the league he was their top penalty killer um I believe he was not on the ice for a power play goal in the Stanley Cup finals their their penalty kill was Lethal throughout the playoffs like uh Florida had I think they had a few you know when they went up 3 0 they had two Power Play Goals and then I don’t think they scored one the rest of the series and I got no penalty killer like a lot of it structuring we know that as Sabers fans like a lot of it you know you have good penalty Killers but you don’t know what to do um with them but yeah uh looking at J Fresh’s model he’s in the 98th per tile uh over a threeyear weighted average like he’s a phenomenal penalty killer yeah I believe there’s only two forwards better at him um that’s the one tweet that was sent in our group chat I think it was in terms of I think in right in evolving hockey goals above above replacement model I think only rope hints and who was the other player it was one other player they were the only two that had a Higher Goals above for placement than him so it’s just another it’s another asset that he brings to the team and you know they’re they’re they’re going to need that it was Yanni Gord and rope hint the only two forwards that have more penalty kill goals above replacement or you can just think about it is war like only two forwards have more penalty kill War than Ryan McLoud over the past three years it’s Yanni Gordon rope hints that’s it that’s it and with the departure of zus gurgenson and you know even Kyle ooso and you know who knows what happens with pton Krebs from here they’re going to need that and it’s it’s a nice it’s another nice asset that he just he brings to the team yeah and the one thing that we haven’t touchdown yet that is probably one of the main reasons why we targeted him and this type of player he’s one of if not one of he’s one of the fastest players in the league he is incredibly fast it’s one of his big points like I was watching a highlight reel and a ton of them were just him using his speed and getting around guys and that’s probably one of the reasons why he was so successful with the Oilers at times he could actually keep up with McDavid yes he could yes he could credit to J fresh for this next tweet skating speed percentile for the Sab bottom six Acquisitions so it’s it’s a mix of their top speed plus the amount of 20 plus mph bursts and this is from uh the NHL Edge which is the NHL’s personal tracking system for players in the league mccloud’s in the 100th percentile albe kubel’s in the 98th lafer is in the 97th and malin’s in the 96th it’s just a clear point of emphasis that Kevin and probably Lindy had this entire offseason was getting faster I mean think about the players we had last year compared to now like our fourth line last year I post so there’s a slow guy Skinner was legit one of the slower players in the league even Zack Benson like he is one of the slower players in the NHL uh you know zus was a was was a quicker player but pitton Krebs has never been a burner and you know Victor Olson was never a straight line speed player Tyson Joe same thing you know they were guys they made sense for the bottom six but it we talked about this last episode like this is the final Mark of Kevin Adams on this bottom six in terms of like building an identity like the other guys sure they’re quick they have defensive responsibility but this solidifies that now you have a third line Center a proven third line Center who did it in the playoffs who’s done it for one of the best teams in the NHL who’s 24 years old you’re he’s cost controlled you have him as an RFA he’s got one year left on his deal going into next season and it’s it just it makes so much sense and you get why seavoy was the return when you start breaking down those things the more you get into McLoud as a player you realize like hey yeah you wouldn’t want to give this guy up for nothing yeah that was the one of the things that um I was initially taken by back by that he only had one year left on his deal then I realized he’s only 24 we still have years of control with him years old you’re paying for years of control with seavoy with that like you’re probably going to have him for at least the next next four years I would say at least I yeah I think that’s a fair fair estimation he has one year left at $2.1 million and then he’s an RFA uh I don’t trying to see if he’s arbitration eligible actually no he is he is he’s arbitration eligible so you know you cross that bridge when you get there but that’s the thing like this isn’t a um I’m trying to like a third line Center that we’ve been talking about like someone like I don’t know like Dylan stro Like a dream acquisition like is he a better player than uh Ryan McLoud yeah he is also cost $5 million McLoud cost you $2 million and he’s younger and he’s younger and look I have no idea you know we spent a lot of time on it last episode if they’re going to spend to the cap and they better but if their intentions still are that and I hope to God they are this guy this you just got a third line Center for $2 million $2 million I’m really liking this ad the more we get into it and another thing I was thinking about is everybody’s been so wrapped up in the top six forward Edition like everybody wants that and it’s you know it’s absolutely it’s it’s the most important thing um I guess it’s less important now we’ll get into that but it was the most important thing but if you looked at the Sab Center depth going into today there were question marks all over it your third line Center going from the bottom to the top okay Sam laferty you know bounced around Center and Wing he’s not he’s not a Bonafide uh fourth line Center but you you’ll survive with him but he’s nothing special you go to third line Center you have pton Krebs someone who hasn’t shown the ability to be a third line Center and I want him to and maybe there’s a chance he still can be and maybe it’s for the Sabers maybe it’s not I think it’s less likely now that this trade has been made he was a third he was lining up to be your third line center after not showing any ability to and then you get to Dylan cousins it’s your second line Center who’s coming off the probably the worst season of his career at least the most disappointing at the very least and Tage Thompson who I’ll defend like I I’ll absolutely defend him I still think he had a great season given the injuries and given everything and the defensive uh improvements he made but even then his his production it took a step back so you have questions about every single Center on that roster conceivably then you throw in Ryan McLoud and at the very least you have one Bonafide good player who’s gearing up to playing the right role like it’s not like he’s being placed as like the second line Center that’s not what’s happening he’s the third line Center and it just it makes the rest of the lineup already look a thousand times better because now your third line is gearing up to be McLoud and possibly like zooker and Greenway for example and that’s just so much I think that’s a huge improvement over like middle stack Greenway and Benson at least a rookie Benson I don’t know like you’re you’re you you have a bottom six now like a legitimate bottom six zooker was kind of like a if he was thrown into the bottom six he was the piece where it’s was like okay he’s the best player in this bottom six is he good yeah yeah he’s good but can he kind of carry it no not really Ryan McLoud can carry that bottom six I think yeah that’s one of the things like if we were to go back you know a few weeks what were the two pretty much the two biggest needs of our off season it’s it was a top six Winger um and it was even pre- Skinner we were saying a top six Winger a third line Center and they just got their third line Center like it was it has been completely overlooked these past few weeks or the past week I guess that we still needed a third line Center like Krabs was gearing up to be our third line Center um and it’s just it’s just it makes me feel so much better about the the bottom six I mean when was the last time we went into a season with a good third line I mean I think conceivably like middle stack Greenway Benson was doing very well at the start of last year and it gave him a four checking line I think it’s more so when’s the last time you’ve gone in feeling good about their bottom six I guess you could have argued last year but because here’s what I was thinking you’re the Buffalo Sabers have not had I guess an identity since I can’t even remember um at least a team structural identity except for 2022 2023 that team was we’re just going to score goals We Are The Rush offense team that is our identity so that was their ID identity set in stone last year they really didn’t have one and in 2021 2022 it was more it wasn’t it wasn’t even an identity it was more so like we’re just going to be competitive we’re going to be a Workhorse type team I guess if you want to call that identity and going back to the eel years like you never had one absolutely you never had one no so it it preciate it goes back to the last Lindy rough team you have an identity for part of your lineup now and one of the probably the most probably the part of the lineup where you need an identity like hey what is the Sabers bottom six you know what it is now they’re fast they’re going to be physical and they’re going to be responsible in their own Zone that is the goal that is what Kevin Adams has built them to be it’s the first time where I can look at a cohesive unit that Kevin Adams has had a full hand in building and be like you know what I feel good about that I feel good it has an identity maybe it doesn’t work out but it it should work out the when I look at it right now and why I like that identity for the bottom six even more is it I feel like it does go with our top six identity too and how we’re such a rush offense like we are going to be one of if not the fastest team in the league next year I mean we have speed we’ve already talked about the bottom six but Tage is fast tuck is fast PKA and cousins that’s two of their assets like we just have a fast top we have a fast forward group now it’s it’s a clear identity and they’re finally you know going towards it they’re embracing it it kind of shocked me I forget who tweeted out and I really apologize because I want to say it was somebody on Sab Twitter somebody pointed it out that the Sabers I think if you were going by 20 M hour bursts off of NHL Edge they were the slowest team in hockey which still kind of surprised me like I really didn’t I didn’t feel like they should have been the slowest like the slowest team um but I do you know I’m sure that wasn’t the case the year before you know your Tage was dealing with a leg thing I Tu was dealing with a leg thing Quinn was out for a large part of the season um and I don’t know cousins never really looked Full Throttle but still like it still surprised me like you said that’s not going to be the case this year and it’s certainly not going to be the case when you add in the fact that you know reasonably your guys that were hurt last last year are going to be healthy I’m just very happy that I I think no matter what you you can at least see that this team has an identity and I think I will commend Adams for that will it work who knows and I don’t think he should be done okay and I think you could conceivably look at this roster I think you can look as at its built as it’s built right now and think like hey they they could be if they wanted to if they wanted to be done they could be uh I really hope they don’t do that but the reason I say that they could be done is their forward Lo group looks pretty good right now you know the only you know the big risk you’re taking if you look at the forward group how it’s constructed right now it seems like Zack Benson is lining up to be their second line left wing and it’s not quite the same but it it does sort of give me Le I vibes from last year where it’s like okay like if you’re pegging him to be at your second line left wing you know I I love Zack Benson and he has a much better chance of thriving in a higher role um than Levi did mostly because he’s got a full NHL season under his belt but that still might be a little bit early for him to take that jump and I think you might be better off if you go out and get a top six forward still but I can look at this forward group and be like I feel decent about it you know I don’t like I’m not in love with it um but like it it excites me I look at it I’m like I feel good like if that was the opening night lineup I would like that’s a good forward group I think if you’re taking in you know because you’re because and we talk about that J fresh model for a second like 82 points do I think that’s low I do because I don’t think it it doesn’t take into account like bounceback Seasons from cousins and a breakout like Jack Quinn is I think who’s going to have one and guys who are down in the model somebody like bow and Byam if they have a good season and um I I think there’s thing obviously there’s things that model doesn’t take into account but I still feel like they probably capped out as like an 85po team I look at this model right now I’m I think this is an 87 88 Point team um with the ceiling of something higher so it’s like I said they got better today they got better and that’s the most important thing yeah I mean if you to look at the lineup right now we pretty much what have 13 forwards right now maybe 14 if I’m counting wrong um so that does it leads me to believe that there’s still more to come because first of all all of these players cannot make the roster um you can’t have all 14 of these guys and it was krebs’ spot the third line Center where where does he go now like Kevin Adams already talked about how he sees lafy as a fourth line Setter now do I think Krabs would probably be better than him as a fourth line Setter yeah maybe but I just feel like there’s not a place for Krabs anymore it’s either or or Greenway like I feel like one of those two is going to be moved out like I just don’t see both of them being on this lineup with these moves that we’ve made yeah I agree and I think it was interesting because at that press conference Kevin Adams said something for the first time maybe in a while I feel like since pton Krebs has gotten into the NHL they’ve had him as a center and I think deservedly so he has the skill set of a center um but he mentioned moving him to the wing and I think you know there’s still a possibility he’s here on opening there’s a huge possibility he’s still here on opening night but I mean you can look at this pton KBS lost his spot he lost his spot in the lineup uh you got the GM talking to the media about how he’s going to maybe change positions mostly because they don’t have a solidified spot for him anymore it’s going to be interesting I mean maybe he plays the season out with the sabes he’s probably not in their long-term plans as I’m speaking on it right now um or at least like even in like the short-term plans I mean we’ll see what contract he gets but he’s probably a very tradable asset for them right now yeah and he hasn’t been too good on the wing when he has played his his small minutes there that’s why he’s played so much as a center um and like at least like last year and even before this trade you know if Krabs were to grow into the player that everybody thought he would be he would be a very good third line Center for us there’s no room for him to grow anymore as a center on this team like he can’t go up it’s either he’s like our fourth line Center or he’s our like third line Winger so there’s no room for him to grow I just I think it it just makes so much sense that he might not be here and like you said Kev has never mentioned him being on the wing before like even we could be wrong but going off of my memory I don’t recall him saying that yeah like even going into this offseason he talked about how Krebs could be that third line Center for us and now he’s talking about him as a Winger so it is a complete change of narrative um and maybe it’s because he knew he was going to make this move or a similar sort of move you know when they made the trade like because like I said I was sort of wondering if was it him or Fogle that was the Winger that um played a lot with dry sight on I’m sure some people knew that off the top of their heads but for me it was a bit fuzzy I thought they were done like I thought this was their top six ad but this is their third line Center and I don’t know I would really like you know we’ve been saying like hey give us one move one move now we’re begging for another I’m still hungry for another because I feel like even if it like eers is the dream Edition but from all intents and purposes the cost is exorbitant from Winnipeg um I don’t know if it’s going to happen I feel like the only thing that’s going to bring it down is if eers were like to request a trade out of there formally um we’ll see but even if it’s like a Joel fary or uh I don’t know a Travis kkny or someone a Trevor zigris I like I would feel like if if they just get one guy there just one more addition I would feel just I would feel complete with this lineup mhm and I think there’s room for it if you move out Krebs and um you know slide down Benson and your third Line’s like Benson McLoud and zooker that’s a good third line that is such a good third line and if your bottom line is Greenway manstein uh laferty and albe kuel like if that’s your fourth line mix that’s good like that’s really good that is really good yeah I mean thing is as the roster built right now there’s not really a path to the roster for Yuri Kulik and I know some fans won’t have a problem with that I don’t know how much more there is for him to learn at the AHL level um he’s not a perfect player and he hasn’t torn up that league and maybe maybe they want him they want one season like Quinn and petka where he just he he explodes and probably the same thing with rosan but I don’t know like I don’t know if he’s ever going to be like that and I think that’s okay I really do think that’s okay especially if they want to fix their power play woses um he could really help with that and I wouldn’t really be scared about playing him in the bottom six if you had to so I wonder I do wonder what they do there but we we’ll see we shall we’ll see what their plan is um you know what Kevin Adams proved to us today you know a trade it can go down at any time I suppose but even then I would still expect it’s going to get quiet really soon here yeah it it is it will be interesting with Kik um because I think you can still make the argument that there’s a pathway for him as a Winger maybe and this is a little extreme and maybe he slots in as a second line guy if they thinks he can make that step I don’t think he should be um but if they don’t make another move I think it can be very likely that he has a good chance to make this team especially like you said to help our power play um but just imagine if we were to go get a top six Winger and I I don’t think it’ll be ERS anymore I feel like Adams really goes with guys that we don’t talk about um proves that yeah that’s that’s what I mean like he doesn’t all the all the energies right now going towards Ellers in the in the Savers Community I just if he makes a trade I think it’s going to be someone we haven’t barely been talking about but imagine what our lineup would look like if we got a top six player like it would probably be their most it’ probably be their most complete forward lineup since 2007 yeah like it would just change maybe in the years after like the few seasons after but the last few teams Lindy had they were very Ryan Miller dependent they’re still good teams but they were very Ryan Miller dependent this would be your deepest team since those years and if you got a top six forward I think they’re a playoff team like legitimately I have I still have questions about the defense because we can get into they resign Henry okaru I’m not the biggest fan of that addition I know speaking for Christian I know he’s not but the forward group is infinitely more important to me you can get in with you can still like Henry oi Haru being resigned is not torpedo their chances at the playoffs next year a top six forward might be the difference that might be the difference between them getting in and them missing if they were to that I mean that would be a legit Playoff lineup um I mean not cup contending but a legit Playoff lineup so I don’t know I’m just I’m craving for it but but we’ll see what happens and before we move to the other side of the trade the one thing that I did find interesting and I I connected the dots is Kevin in his latest press conference when he was asking you know are you done you know are you going to make more moves he said how you know sometimes teams get a player they don’t think they’re going to get and now they have a player that that’s Expendable um and I think this is pretty similar to what happened now like I believe the Oilers picked up someone else um and wonder who for a similar cap hit yeah and they don’t they didn’t need him anymore so I just I find it interesting because Kevin has always been very honest with the media um and I think that was something that was always in the back of my mind that he might be looking to make more moves now because other teams have filled their needs and they have more Expendable players yeah uh you know it’s I the one point I will be willing to defend Adams on and I can defend it now because he made a trade uh and we were just talking about with with eers like I didn’t like I still recognized like it’s clear okay teams are trying to take advantage of the Sabers or like their costs are higher like was Ryan McLoud going to go for any other team’s top Prospect maybe may they could have because you know we’ll get into this aoy conversation because League wide perception looks to be lower than what we thought but you know they looked at I I I I would be very interested to know who initiated trade talks here I would be but Kevin Adams I think has been dealing with a really tough market and we learned that with the eer stuff how supposedly they’re asking for four pieces three of which being first round caliber it’s tough to make a trade but for me it didn’t matter like you had to find a deal and he found one today and we saw it it cost it took a big hit I mean no matter what seavoy is perceived as by the rest of the league he’s still a top prospect he still is it’s just how high of a caliber is he but they had to give that up to get a Ryan McLoud to get a quality third line Center so getting a top six forward like yeah it’s not easy but it’s something you have to navigate you have to find that trade that nobody was expecting and you know we’ll see like like JP said you know when the dust settles these teams that are up against the cap you know what what are they going to have to move to get under it what are they going to have to uh export out of their system and cuz we can provide cost controlled prospects that are highend you know that’s that’s the allore of you just traded Matthew seavoy you still have Yuri Kik Isa Isaac rosan Noah osland um conus Anon wallberg you have all these other players and you got the other guys in the system that are still coming up you have all of that and I think you know teams are going to find that attractive if they need to to to get rid of a piece uh to help their own roster construction out they’re going to come to the Sabers I think you know I I can only hope um but it’s going to be diff like in a trade like the like the eers trade Winnipeg doesn’t have to make that deal that’s why I don’t think they will yeah unless they’re still good unless eers kills his own value it’s it’s they’re still good um or at least they still think they’re good and you know eers is probably gone no matter what after next season from Winnipeg they’re they might be like hey who cares we’re going to get the we’re going to get every ounce of contract out of you so that’s a type of trade where it’s like it’s almost impossible because they just don’t care but if a team goes to Kevin Adams or at least they come to a mutual understanding that hey we can help each other out um and that’s the trade that you can look for so yeah I wonder is there a top six forward that is maybe I don’t know on the move out of there I don’t know that’s for Kevin to find out and there’s also there’s not many teams that are willing to give away a top six forward I mean they’re not easy to come by it’s true like you how many teams like what teams are giving away top six forwards um that are trying to pretty much they also trying to like guess what good teams have good players they don’t want to trade those good players for prospects it sucks you have to find the trade you have to find the team that is willing to do that and it can be incredibly tough to convince them but but you still have to do it and I think Kevin Adams was able to do that today like he like I said I’d be interested to know who initiated talks but it probably took some convincing well let’s get into the other side of the trade so let get into the other side as much as we’re talking this up we’re talking this up reaction is all like that we’re excited I’m I see all the upside with this move and one last thing like we we really haven’t talked about Ryan McLoud like production wise this past season career season 12 goals 30 points so from the outside looking in people are like this is the this is a random third line Center that we that just got traded for a top prospects um but it’s times like these where you really do appreciate like Advanced stats and even the opinions of opposing fan bases where it’s they’re going to miss this player they might be happy with what they got they’re still going to miss him because they think he’s good and look Ryan McLoud 30-point player third line Center who he only averaged 14 minutes a game last season um he didn’t get any power play time because uh Edmonton never took their top group off the ice and they shouldn’t have it’s probably one of the best power plays ever assembled but he didn’t get power play time who knows what he can maybe do with that here I think you I think you absolutely looking at a forward with 50o upside but back to the other point of the conversation so you if you were to go on Twitter right now um the sabes are getting blasted for this move absolutely leag wide blasted League wide when I say this trade sent shock waves um people are uh to put it likely baffled baffled that the Sabers made this trade to put it into context how about Matt Lin Matt Lin of the daily Faceoff the seavoy trade has fors has Philip forsberg for Martin ett Vibes my jaw is on the floor and that tweet has like a 1500 likes a lot of people are agreeing with that in the comments like people are shocked by this move on a wider scale and to that I understand like I said Ryan McLoud from the outside looking in 30p point third line Center being traded for someone who still regards is one of the top prospects in hockey I get that I get that on a national scale and that’s going to continue until you know maybe they’re right maybe they’re right in the end maybe it was a big mistake or they you know seavoy never pans out to what he’s going to be I understand why the rest of the league is clowning on the Sabers and criticizing them but what I can’t understand is why Sabers fans are like why like a very large portion are very upset at this move like this is the final straw like people are calling for Adam’s head and like I’m not exaggerating a lot of people have done that today yeah it’s it’s pretty baffling we’ve been calling for a trade for the last week for the past month and he finally makes like an impactful trade this isn’t a random trade like the back the Beck manstein trade this is an impactful trade and we all realized that we were going to have to overpay a little and now it happens and like half the fan base is upset that it’s we gave up seavoy um and I love seavoy but I mean you got to do what you got to do I understand if you know because of course there’s going to be big seavoy fans out there if they’re like man that stinks I see what the Savers are doing but man they really stinks to see him go that’s one thing like if you’re calling for Kevin Adams’s job or you’re like you think the Sabers got fleeced I just I really don’t see the logic behind that even if you think the Oilers got the better end of it the saber like this is not you know what would be a Philip forsberg for martinat trade if the Sabers traded Matthew seavoy for Scott laon that would be that type of trade Ryan McLoud is a 24y old center with legitimate two-way upside who just as we said was the third line center for the team that just went to game seven of the Stanley Cup Final and has done a lot of good stuff away from their best players that is not Martin ret he was was like 32 years old when he got traded for forsberg I I don’t know I just I’m a little taken taken a back like it’s a large number of people that were really really upset and I I think this goes into a wider conversation about seavoy himself fan perception of him League wide and even in the own Savers fan base people think this guy is going to be a Bonafide Topline stud and the potential is still abs absolutely there for him absolutely but I think the worst thing for Matthew seavoy was the fact that he was a small undersiz forward with black hair playing for the Buffalo Sabers because from night one everybody was like oh look it’s it’s the new Danny Brier and I think people have put that into their heads and combine that with the fact that he tore up the WHL which he should have been doing in any ways like guess it’s not like he had a it’s not like he had underwhelming Seasons but he was doing what he should have done in the WHL it wasn’t like historic stuff you know it’s funny how SEO stock kind of Rose in the fan base where kiks fell after bad playoff showing when if you swapped leagues I don’t think their performances change like how many goals is Yuri Kulik scoring in the WHL in his D plus2 season he’s scoring like 60 to 70 goals MH he’s tearing up that league so I think it’s it’s I think seavoy is able to look better by playing with lower competition whereas someone like Yuri Kik is playing up to his like playing up in competition he’s playing people that are better than him and you know seavoy is he’s a player who has produced a ton in the WHL okay he had in 183 regular season WHL games he had 263 points that’s fantastic and in his short AHL stint last year he had five points in six games so like a good showing that’s a guy with obviously potential but like even for the Memorial Cup and his playoff run with the mustra Warriors this year he wasn’t the best player on that team it was Jagger ferus seavoy wasn’t even on their their first line until I think they were on the brink of elimination when they decided to top load that that Top Line and that’s they more so had the ability to because um they had been playing well and because Jacker Jager Fergus had been carrying that that team but seavoy wasn’t even the guy for that playoff run like he had good playoff numbers but he was like slightly over Point per game he wasn’t he wasn’t at his regular season totals so I think because a you’re able to see Kik a lot more because he plays in the AHL and seavoy plays in the west coast you know a lot of people don’t see that they just see highlights and if you see a Matthew sooy highlight he’s just going to be whipping past a poor 18-year-old who’s going to get drafted in like the seventh round whereas Kik is playing against men and he has to fight for every goal a lot more now look I still think they’re two prospects in the same tier of one another I do but seavoy is not in a tier above someone like ERI Kulik absolutely not I’ll stand by that so I think a lot of people have this idea that he is like this Bonafide almost mcklin celebrini esque tier Prospect or like a Will Smith like coming into this league and everybody knows he’s going to be a Topline player I don’t have those I don’t have those uh like I’m not as confident in that there’s no there’s no definite answer for Matthew seavoy in my opinion and he projects more to be a Winger in the NHL where a lot of people were thinking he would be our Center solution come the future um he’s probably going to be a win um and this isn’t going to talk him down he’s an incredible Prospect he’s probably arguably could argue he’s the best Prospect in our um pipeline I would say he’s definitely top three along with kle um but I also I do find it interesting how The Narrative of him has changed so much and I think this trade and him moving is a product of the environment around him and some circumstances that he can’t control I mean last year he was tearing it up and then he got H at development camp and then his teammate who his linemate actually steps over him starts on the NHL team and just complet everybody like forgets about him and it’s like you can’t knock seavoy for playing so good with Benson but even coming into that year people were like he was very good but he’s not even the best player on his line um and I just I it’s it’s tough because he’s such a good Prospect but the around him I just I there wasn’t a clear path to him and plus what could have really affected his stock is the stupid WHL rule where he couldn’t come to the AHL where he was subjected to another year down in the WHL to play Above competition um when he should be here that probably did not help him at all and it’s no fault of his own yeah but unfortunately he was playing on a loaded uh you know once he got traded to Mo he was playing on a loaded team and playing against players he was already better then whereas Kulik was like I said fighting for each and every point in the AHL and Zack Benson was playing 71 games in the NHL he got Lea frogged and I I think people Overlook that and even put it put it this way compare Matthew seavoy to Noah osland compare their world juniors this year Olen should have won MVP seavoy had one point in four games okay yeah and I defended him a lot when he didn’t make the team in 2023 even though Team Canada went on to win you know they had Conor Bard and like Dylan Gunther on that team they were a stacked team despite Miss despite not taking seavoy and I think Team Canada like they still held against them he went to go play in the USHL during Co I think that’s why he didn’t make that team but he didn’t make that like he didn’t he wasn’t so good that they just couldn’t take him off he was still a player that they can conceivably go without with and we saw they won the whole thing and that but that’s not even that’s not the big thing that’s that’s minor this year’s performance like one point in four games where even osland probably raised his stock above him around the NHL or at least they got closer like the Gap closed yeah and we talked about after the um the world juniors how Olen is like more of the guy that we want to keep now and we were talking about houseo is probably the guy on the way out because of how good Benson was playing and how good of a world juniors that Olen have I’ll bring up this there was there was an article going around back by the athletic and it was Cory proman Scott wheeler I think they were surveyed about they were surveyed about where teams um like what was the most valuable pieces of their um like of their system when they got to the Sabers this is what each of them had to say so Scott wheeler says excluding the Sabers timeline context I think I’d go with the following based purely on value League wide first and he says the most valuable thing in their system was 11th overall this was this was prior to the draft they said 11th overall was the most valuable piece in their system then it was Yuri Kik then it was Matthew seavoy and then it was Noah osland Cory prman also put 11th overall at number one and then at number two he put a Tai Noah osland and Yuri Kulik and at number three he put Matthew seavoy those guys are well ined and I don’t think it’s a mistake that even back then we were hearing about or not hearing about but it was being hinted at that seavoy wasn’t as highly regarded as I think most fans would put him and I think it’s based off of subp power world junr performances and the fact he was in the WHL in his D plus2 season and look unfortunately he’s 5’9 he’s 5’9 it’s an obstacle that it’s still matters like you shouldn’t you shouldn’t disregard a prospect because of that but he’s 5’9 there’s not a lot of 59 star forward there’s not a lot of 59 uh top six forwards in the NHL these days you know a lot of them they’re big they are it’s unfortunate anything you we’ve gotten to the point in NHL history where it’s no longer like it used to be where the big guys where they were power forwards for checking and they hitting people and getting grindy goals and the small guys were finesse look at Tage Thompson look at even like Dylan cousins like these guys are monsters and they play a finesse game that’s how the NHL is these days Matthew seavo is not special he’s not there to break the mold and when I say he’s not special I mean like he’s not he’s not new in terms of what he brings to the table he’s still ins insanely gifted insanely talented it’s just still he has a lot of lot of steps to climb before before he becomes a top six forward in the NHL uh and before he even becomes an NHL forward another thing about seavoy here’s a thing about his play style Matthew seavoy and Zack Benson small undersized forwards but they play very different games and there’s a reason I think that Zack Benson got to the NHL first most importantly he’s he’s a he’s a incredibly smart player incredibly smart but those two players use their size differently or at least treat it differently Zack Benson picks his spots and he is a very methodical player or he’s going to he’s going to go for I don’t want to call it the safe play but he’s going to try and open something up that wasn’t there by try to utilizing the space that’s given to him to create a PL passing lane or to create uh another just continue to create possession in whatever Zone he’s in Matthew seavoy uses his explosiveness whenever he can and what I mean by that is he tries to just blow past teams or he tries to go through teams and he can do that at the WHL and you you see that all the time he’ll just cut through defenses and look in that League he’s playing against 17 18 year olds 15y olds who are not fully developed like he is and he can get away with that but as we saw I mean his one injury was in the WHL playoffs definitely when the physicality was going to be taken to another level and then when he got to development Camp even he got crushed in his own Zone and it’s an unfortunate hit just bad place wrong time not a lot fault of his own but he got crushed and his his lack of size sort of got exposed and unfortunately you have a player coming into the AHL and into his possible NHL Seasons he’s already got an injury history under him and I’m trying to remember they were both I think they were both shoulder injuries I don’t know if it was ever confirmed if it was the same shoulder but even in that case he’s hurt both shoulders already and that’s before walking into the NHL and you know it sound like I’m talking him down a lot it sounds like and I don’t want to be like that I just want to make the point like he’s not this slam dunk he is not like a top five Prospect in the NHL there’s a reason the Sabers were confirmed to be shopping him as the prospect to trade this summer and why teams seemingly weren’t as high on him as we were that he there’s things he has to learn in the AHL he has to learn when to pick his spots and when to not it like tried to squeeze through two like 30-year-old men like trying to cut through them at the Blue Line because otherwise he’s going to have a bad time yeah I think that’s part of it too and that you know his timeline it’s not you know he can’t he’s not going to be able to make the NHL right away or he’s not going to excel right away in the NHL he might take a little longer and that’s one of the advantages that Kulik and rosan have over him they have a lot of experience at the pro level sooy has none like he’s he’s played in the Juniors okay he he played 3 minutes and 50 seconds with the Sabers and he played what four playoff games with the Amar it’s going to take time for him to get into the NHL and to get acclimated and he still might be an incredible player if he could get through all that and I hope he is I’m not going to root against him but it’s with this timeline he doesn’t really fit in it anymore and I think using him as our big Prospect to trade and I think he’s very League wide known like I think most fan bases know who Matt seavoy is like he’s a League wide known everybody knew he fell to us he’s been our top prospect for years um and I I just think he made sense to be the guy that’s be moved and the upside is still it’s so there I I don’t want to talk down his potential his potential is still through the roof I’m just trying to talk my way through a why the Sabers felt they could survive this move and B why I just don’t think fan perception was as high as um as how front offices see it I think they see some of those things the fact he didn’t take off in the WHL probably as much as he should have and that his world junior performances haven’t been great and that he has that injury history now he’s still an incredibly talented offensive player um still incredibly explosive it’s not like he’s blown his knee out and has lost foot speed or anything it’s not like that the core pieces of his game are still there and he’s going to a team that I I think he should be able to um contribute um I’m not too sure with how the Edmonton development system is but Dylan Holloway has seemingly broken into the NHL as a good uh rookie and contributed in the playoffs so they might have a good development path set up for him I think Edmonton fans if there’s any listening I think you just have to go in with the right mindset don’t expect this guy to make the roster out of camp and almost almost fill the hole that McLoud left when he when he uh got dealt that’s not who seavoy is right now and maybe even ever ever because JP mentioned it I think he projects as a Winger in the NHL and he can be a good Winger yeah I I did already see some oers fans projecting him to be like their third line Center or their third line Winger this year um and I think you know they’re Overjoyed right now they just one of the top prospects in the league for the third line Center um but I think you know they’ll take a step back um he’ll be in the AHL and hopefully he develops really nicely and plays into be a really good player with a really good team quite frankly he could fit into that team really well considering you know he’s fast like you said his explosiveness and that’s part of the reason why Edmonton has been so good with some of their Speedy guys yeah you’re you’re absolutely right so we wish Matthew seavoy all the best I I’m just I’m really I’m happy Adams made a deal like this because it also it gets because you trade Matthew seavoy like trading trading Casey middle stat is one thing you could sort of see the writing on the wall for him you know maybe they chose to keep him but even then you could totally see the possibility that they were going to trade him nothing was forcing Kevin Adams to trade Matthew seavoy you know I mean we saw how shocked the league was as a whole by seeing this trade this gets the pedigree off Kevin Adam’s back you can no longer call him a GM that won’t trade prospects he just traded Matthew seavoy so I’m happy about that and I’m happy it’s for a legitimate good NHL player how good he’s going to be and how they slot him in you know it remains to be seen but you know now the question no longer we don’t have to talk about the bottom six anymore the only thing we might have to talk about is if they make if they trade anybody else out of it now we can probably turn the the conversation you know it still probably remains on a top six for because I still think they should add one but now the conversation turns to that and you know wrapping up stuff with crabs and getting the LC in contract we’ll see how that goes I’ve been saying for some time I could totally see it going to arbitration um but we’ll see hopefully they get a deal knocked out before then and we’ll see what the Krabs and manstein contracts look like but well I believe Krebs he didn’t go to arbitration correct oh that’s right yeah yeah it was he just took his qualifying off right yep good which I’m not sure if we know how much it is um I’m not sure about that but I did did find it interesting that Krebs didn’t go to arbitration like I don’t that could mean absolutely nothing or it could mean something I don’t know I don’t know people were pointing to uh you know none of the top prospects going to uh camp this week that could have meant nothing or hey it might have maybe that maybe he knew that somebody was on the way out so I did not think about it that’s fair it could be it could be nothing or it it could be something so we shall see we shall see but I’m very excited by this move at the very least think about this way the Sabers did not did not make the Sabers worse and they didn’t even make the AMS worse because Matthew SEO has played a combined what 10 games for the amirs in the past two seasons so um and you know honestly that’s something we we can touch on they absolutely had to move Prospect even if it was like a prospect for Prospect tra like even if you had I don’t know somebody that just got dealt uh um somebody just got drafted within the past year they would have had way too many prospects on the amirs this year like you would have had seavoy and probably Kulik and rosan wallberg and guys like Nev and constant helenius they probably want to get over here a that’s like seven or eight guys and you can’t prioritize all of their developments at the exact same time it’s it’s impossible so they had to make a move like this and they did it they they swung big you know they they got a legitimate NHL third line Center like there’s no questions about that at least on paper and we also we one guy we barely mentioned him we did get a guy to help our AHL team it’s true former second I think he uh Tyler Tulio he was drafted 2020 I believe 2020 yeah I think he’s had some good he had a good AHL year last year yeah he’s probably depth for you know he’s probably depth for Rochester but um yeah he had played for yeah he played for Bakersfield last year at 21 points in 54 games 26 points and 63 the year before so he’s a he’s depth for the AHL team he’s probably not going to impact the NHL roster um but you know what help it helps the AMS um gives them another nice Young Piece man maybe he turns into something maybe he’s the secret of this deal he turns into something unexpectedly it’ll turn into his trade the Tyler Tulio trade I like the sound of that all right but I think other than that for now I think I think that’s a good place to leave off I’m trying to think of anything else to really touch on but hey we have the rest of the summer to do that uh Christian still you know still got to get Christian’s thoughts on this we still have to unpack the rest of the NHL at some point in their free agency so and it impacts our Prospect pyramid episode coming up so it’s fun we got the whole summer to talk about this and hopefully hopefully the Sabers aren’t done I I really if they got a top six forward I think it’s a win of an off season that we’re that close you’re that close from a Bonafide win of an offseason it’s you stuff to swing big but despite keeping the decor basically the same I think if you complete your forward group and make it one of the deepest probably in the league if you get a legitimate like if you get a Nikolai eers like that’s one of the deepest lineups I think in the NHL um I would just it would it would just feel so good but I know right now I’m still probably sipping the Kool-Aid the the post trade high so we’ll see how this ages as we get into the summer and um we’ll see if Adams speaks about this move um soon so we’ll see we’ll see if it’s uh we have the whole rest of the summer to talk about this I’m excited it’s it’s a fun move at the very least it’s fun to see player movement like a big Prospect for good NHL player trade it’s it’s a good day it’s a good day for any hockey fan yeah it’s good discourse it’s it’s something exciting to talk about I don’t think we had any any plans to talk about the Sabers moves this weekend and posi light yeah yeah really in a positive light um we’re just going to talk about more prospects the prospect Camp yeah yeah so I I think at the very least um it it gives us a jolt to the Savers fan base a positive one from for some maybe negative if you really like seavoy um but at least you know I know I I said this last week and you guys didn’t like it but at least like Kevin did something like he’s he’s not done he’s making moves now it’s legitimate like now he he did something he traded a top prospect to F A need like you can’t take that away from him even in a worst case scenario where Ryan McLoud doesn’t turn into something like his his NHL pedigree it’s there coming into this season there’s no reason this really shouldn’t work out it doesn’t mean it’s going to there’s no guarantees but this should work out and it’s nice he’s finally Kevin Adams finally has the stigma off his back he’s not willing to trade prospects and I think it it gives Merit to the idea he was going through conversations with other teams he was doing so this whole time it just you it was frust rating but the right deal never materialized until now and he finally finally pulled the trigger so I think with that that’s going to do it for this emergency episode uh crazy day crazy day um just some closing thoughts once again I if you’re if you don’t like the trade like if you really like seavo and you really thought he’s going to be a top end Prospect and you’re a big hater of McLoud fine that that’s fine I you shouldn’t be calling for Kevin Adams job because of this not because of this I really don’t see how that is beneficial but I don’t know maybe you think I’m just a I don’t know a naive a naive fan who thinks too highly of a GM naive 20-year-old who hasn’t fully suffered this entire drought um but what I mean our bottom six five new forwards that’s an overhaul so it’s it’s a complete overhaul you can’t say Kevin didn’t do anything no you can officially say now he he did something he he really made a big swing so I think with that that’s going to do it for this episode of the saber round table thank you very much for listening if you want to follow us on Twitter follow us at atth saer report on Twitter Instagram and Tik Tok uh if you watch this on YouTube thank you very much for watching click like click subscribe if you want updates for the Pod you can follow us on Twitter saer report pod as always go live go give our friends over at the Buffalo Sports Talk podcast alisten um we’ll see how this episode pushes back any the next time we meet but as I said stay tuned to our Twitter for any updates I’m sure the three of us will meet uh in the near future or perhaps Jesse I hear some people really want to see him back on so thank you very much for listening we’ll see you next time feel free to leave a review and as always go Savers go savers

In this episode, Jonah and JP breakdown everything having to do with the ‘Matthew Savoie for Ryan McLeod (& Tyler Tullio)’ trade.

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